Episode 28: Right to the Source gets into the festive spirit

[00:00:14] Speaker A: Right. Hello, everyone. My name is Robin Harrison and I'm joined, as ever, with the Donner to my Blitzen. Mr. Ray. [00:00:26] Speaker B: I was gonna say that. I would have said that. But actually, surely it should be the Rudolph to your Santa, because Donna to Blitzen makes you. It's sweet. You're kind of calling us peers, you know, not. [00:00:39] Speaker A: I would say that. [00:00:40] Speaker B: I mean, and normally you do. Like I'm the. The lesser one. [00:00:45] Speaker A: It's Christmas. I'm feeling charitable. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Okay. Thank you. I'll take it as it's meant to be. [00:00:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:51] Speaker A: And also, they're always grouped together, so it seemed like a good joke. [00:00:55] Speaker B: Can you name all the reindeer? [00:00:58] Speaker A: Oh, God. Dasher, Prancer, Donner, Blitzen, Cupid, Comed. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Two more. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Aren't they a Raphael, Leonardo something. [00:01:08] Speaker B: And Vixen. Is it Vixen one? [00:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah, but then it was Blitzen. So if you've got Blitzen, why would you have Vixen the. Time to just get lazy with the naming. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Female fox, isn't it? [00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah, but they sound similar. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Santa's reindeer. Here we go. Right. Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Comet, Cupid, Donna and Blitzen. With the addition of the famous Rudolph. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah, but he was a bit of an interloper, wasn't he? [00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, the original eight were from a poem from 1823. [00:01:47] Speaker A: It was that. The night before Christmas. That's the most famous phrase used in the pod. The most. Not the most famous. The most repeated phrase in the podcast this year. [00:01:57] Speaker B: What? Yes, it is. [00:01:59] Speaker A: It is. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Followed by betting. [00:02:04] Speaker A: Betting was the most used actual word. [00:02:06] Speaker B: Actual word. Yep. Black market in Netherlands must be up there pretty high. [00:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And probably Brazil. Yeah. [00:02:17] Speaker B: What's 20? Let's not look back over past errors. What's 2026 going to be talking about? Not what's it going to be talking about. What are we going to be talking about? [00:02:26] Speaker A: What are we going to be talking about? Well, I imagine. Betting. Imagine. We'll probably say quite a lot. We will probably talk about the black market. The Netherlands, Brazil. I mean, is it. So it's an interesting one. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Too early. Finland's going to be mid-27 now, I reckon. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Yeah, Finland will take a while. I mean, honestly. I mean, I think in the new year, we'll do like a proper predictions episode and we'll actually have a think about. Yeah. [00:02:58] Speaker B: Oh, predictions. I thought it's my prediction markets. Yeah. No, we should do predictions. Yeah. [00:03:03] Speaker A: Yeah. But for the first time, I think since I've been in the industry, you know, when I Started when I still had hair and less back pain. I don't really know what's going to happen next year. I feel like we're going into a year and there's much more uncertainty than we've had as an industry. [00:03:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Do people think that every year? [00:03:28] Speaker A: No, I wouldn't say so. I would say generally, you've got a kind of a good steer on what's going to happen. I mean, we know some stuff that's going to happen. Igaming in the US probably won't move forward. Some other market will snap back. There's always an outside chance that France will regulate. I casino and monopoly market will liberalize. Austria being the one most likely next year. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Chile to eventually pass the regulation or. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Launch at some point. I mean, I think. I think we've been. We've been predicting that for the past three years. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Okay, so January, we need five predictions each, three of which need to be igaming related. [00:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:04:12] Speaker B: Okay. And the 181823 poem was called A Visit from St. Nicholas aka Twas the Night Before Christmas. [00:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Well done. [00:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah. I've got. [00:04:22] Speaker B: If quiz was starting yet, you'd be one nil up. [00:04:25] Speaker A: Well, I've got a nice little copy of it. [00:04:30] Speaker B: So. Yeah. So five predictions, three to do with our gaming and two can be anything else. [00:04:35] Speaker A: I mean, this is potentially a new low for us. We start planning the next episode at the start of the one we're currently recording. [00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Look, I can't do this. People are going to take us seriously. Wearing Christmas jumpers. I just can't do it. Can't do it. [00:04:49] Speaker A: I mean, you assume that people are going to take his. I mean, I think it's quite bold to assume that people are taking it seriously. [00:04:55] Speaker B: I am a businessman, and I think I should wear a businessman's jacket and tie to show that I am a serious data person, not some journalistic monkey. We even do it up. There we go. You've got costume changes now I feel better. People will take the data seriously. [00:05:19] Speaker A: You look very credible. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Thank you. This is Rudolph, by the way. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Rudolph the interloper. [00:05:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. What are we talking about today? Robinho Binho. [00:05:33] Speaker A: Not sure I like that. [00:05:35] Speaker B: So I don't know if I said the stat on the podcast or to you separately, but I told a stat to a number of people that if the World cup hadn't expanded to the stupid amount of teams, Brazil would not have qualified. [00:05:48] Speaker A: You did. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Turns out that's not true. [00:05:51] Speaker A: Isn't it? [00:05:51] Speaker B: No, they would have. They would have just scraped in but. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Also, but on that original logic, and I'm quite disappointed, that's not true. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Well. And apparently if you just say stuff on LinkedIn, it becomes true. So maybe I should put it on LinkedIn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:06:08] Speaker A: And dream it into reality. But by that same logic, Brazil would not have qualified, but Scotland would have done. [00:06:16] Speaker B: Scotland, yes, Scotland did. Well, okay, structure. I'm just looking through your. I'm Looking through your WhatsApp structure, news and general bullshitting. So I think we've covered the second bit. News. Any news this week? You're the news guy. You claim to be a journalist. Journalism is to do in news. Yeah. Okay. I'll tell you what, I'll help you out. [00:06:38] Speaker A: Manage a team of journalists. So, I mean, in terms of what's interesting, in terms of what we've been looking at, the India. The challenge to India's real money gaming ban has been pushed back. Brazil has delayed a vote. Surprise, surprise, on the tax hike. What else is interesting? Yeah, New York, they gave out the three licenses. Wasn't any twist in the tail Revelation. [00:07:01] Speaker B: See, what is, though, is, is how ridiculous it is that they're just paying completely different tax rates. Like, completely different. Have you seen that? They are, I mean, Resource World. Fair enough. They're paying what, 56 on slots? And I think the VLTs is currently 70, so they'll be better off. But then you've got ballets who are paying 25. Is it all 30? 25. Some of that. It's just. [00:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. [00:07:28] Speaker B: You can't go in and go, oh, we're going to try and get a license or put a bid for a high tax rate. And then when no one else does it go, oh, I think you should just equalize the tax rate for everyone. It's like, no, you, you went for it. Suck it up, buttercup. [00:07:41] Speaker A: Yep, suck it up, buttercup. [00:07:43] Speaker B: But for them, a huge advantage because they've just chucked some tables in and they're paying less tax than they are at the moment. So I'm just reading. Right. I would like you to give me a 15 second rundown of what these articles are that are the Latest articles on iGamingBusiness.com Crypto's March to legitimacy. Can digital wallets find a regulated home in global gaming? [00:08:08] Speaker A: Well, that's about. Well, I mean, we've talked about this before in the podcast, the shifting position of crypto in the industry because you're seeing it use, for example, supergroup are launching a stablecoin to essentially reduce payment costs in Africa and make it easier for customers to transact with the site. We have discussed it before about certain Companies shuttering their B2C crypto gaming operations to focus on regulated markets. So yeah, crypto's a Crypto is emerging as a potentially legitimate option and I think that is something to be discussed and debated. [00:08:50] Speaker B: I think things like the stable coin for Africa is. But I can't see many regulators allowing crypto in general. Okay, we'll just do two. So the other one. IGB Pentasia salary survey analysis of 2025 developments shaping sector pay. So what should I pay? Rises? Should I be giving to work to directly with you? [00:09:16] Speaker A: Which one have you got? [00:09:19] Speaker B: Not a lot. I can't see a single number in here actually, so that's quite disappointing. [00:09:28] Speaker A: Well, I would have a look at the. I mean, have you been in the site this week? Because you know that this has been running for the past few. [00:09:40] Speaker B: 4.09% wage growth across our gaming in 2025. [00:09:45] Speaker A: So if you look at inflation analytics and developers. So for a junior data and BI analyst averaging about 44,000 a year, rising to about 65,000 on average for a senior jumps up very high in the US to about 170,000 and ahead of that month. [00:10:10] Speaker B: Now, very glad that all of my staff have completely ignored my edict that they, if that's the right word, have to listen to the podcast and none of them do. So hopefully they will hear any of those numbers. Your Average salary is £17,000. God, that's good. Good people. Work for me. Right, let's move on before we get in trouble. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, just for context, the salary survey is something that we do every year with Pintasia. Genuinely, it's like, I think it's one something that I'm, you know, really proud that we've done with them for a number of years. It's really great collaboration with their team, especially Brooke and Andre from the marketing God. [00:10:51] Speaker B: It's our Christmas special. Stop sucking up to all your partners and sponsors and all that rubbish. Come on, we need to make it snappy. Okay. [00:10:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:59] Speaker B: Okay, Robin, next structure review of the year. Just key developments, themes, Keep it tight. I mean, those last three words are completely pointless because we won't do that. [00:11:11] Speaker A: No, we won't. [00:11:11] Speaker B: Okay, key developments and themes this year. Go. I started the link. [00:11:18] Speaker A: Okay, you started the link. So first of all, taxation. It's going up. It's not going to stop going up. And as you said very eloquently a week or two ago, after some judicious edits, to get rid of the swear words saying this. It's going to topple. The sector is creating a rod for the industry's back. And I think that's true. Unless people are going to withdraw from markets and say that they are, they're essentially not going to do business under those conditions. They're going to have to find a way. And I think that ultimately lends itself to next year's big theme, which is going to be how do you survive in this new world order? [00:12:05] Speaker B: Yep. Just for complete context, Estonia has reduced. [00:12:11] Speaker A: Has. [00:12:13] Speaker B: But yes, as a theme, tax has gone up. I mean, new world order. He's not thinking, just pushing it a bit. No, I think sensationalize. Okay. You're paying more tax. The big guys will survive, they'll make less profit, they will innovate. Because as much as everyone likes to be doom and gloomy, as you like to say, the industry is pretty damn good. And they will find new ways of doing it. Whether it's like Matchbook, who are now launching a predictions market in the uk, which by the way, is what Betfair have been doing for over 20 years, just with a better user interface. So this whole. Oh, Americans have designed prediction markets. No, they haven't. It's a load of crap. [00:12:53] Speaker A: And. Well, Americans license prediction markets as a betting product when Betfair was in New Jersey, so. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And it didn't work then. [00:13:02] Speaker A: Yeah, that's because of liquidity. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Also the user interface as well, because you can always seed liquidity. Well, I'm not sure if they're allowed to in New Jersey. Yeah, we need a predictions market one because I just don't see how it's not going to fall flat on its face. [00:13:17] Speaker A: I mean, you're starting to see the pushback. You know, the Louisiana Letter A underdog in Arizona, Nevada sort of leading the charge. There's kind of a schism. And I think what I'm curious about with all this is does that, how does that affect something like I casino regulation next year? Because essentially in a lot of these states, like so DraftKings, FanDuel are licensed via, you know, the master licensee, which is one of the brick and mortar properties. They're now sitting on the other side of the fence. They're in the AGA, you know, DraftKings, Fangio, whoever are in the SBA with that markets piece. Does this essentially grind any further progress. Sorry. To a halt. [00:14:12] Speaker B: But they're not actually in the prediction. There's a trade group of prediction people, aren't there? And they're not in that. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:22] Speaker B: So this. There you go. I'm going to throw you on early one of my predictions and this is highly controversial and no one will agree with it because the general view is this will all get sorted out pretty quickly and by pretty quickly they mean it will be in the Supreme Court within five years. I don't view that as quickly but my logic behind this, flawed as it may be, is that generally gaming regulators are against this and therefore all that needs to happen is all. All the gaming regulators get together and say right, if you launch prediction markets in any state, whether it has legalised gaming or not or betting and gaming, you will not have a no longer be allowed to operate in this state and see what DraftKing and FanDuel do now that doesn't. Still leaves kind of the others polymarket Kalshi but you know, I think that's a good starting point. [00:15:13] Speaker A: Bold, safer for January. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Okay, I'll save for January. So themes are forgotten. What even the themes were developments themes. I suppose you could talk what have people been talking asking about uae. I don't really think it's that relevant for the majority of people. I think that just takes up more space than more headlines than it than the reality of what it's going to mean to the global gambling market. It will be important for a couple of people there. [00:15:38] Speaker A: I think it's going to be an exciting development and I'm keen to see what. When do that property. But yeah, it's obviously of interest. I mean as is Brazil. Cannot talk about Brazil, can we? [00:15:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think Brazil's probably being the big one this Brazil and the impact of the. The changes in the Netherlands that happened last year and how they've come this year. But I think they're the two kind of biggest things, you know, to have a regulator come out and say that, you know, 50% of the market's offshore and to really see the impact of. Clearly see the impact of the regulatory change on channelization and the Brazil market that to be honest, I think the onshore market, as much as everyone in Brazil likes to talk about the size of the offshore market, I think the onshore market size is bigger than most people anticipated. People were generally in agreement with our figures for last year and the onshore market's grown a lot. So offshore market aside, I think if you'd have told people this year the onshore market was going to be this size, they'd have all been happy. Just the fact is I think that the majority of the Brazilian operators naively assumed that because they're local, they would take huge share. And guess what? 3, 4, 5 players take the majority of the market. So you're left with a lot of operators fighting over a small amount. Okay. And then the UK budget, obviously, and then bet365 was. Was a big thing at the time. [00:17:04] Speaker A: You know, at the time it's gone quiet. But you feel that could be because something's happening. [00:17:09] Speaker B: And also who's going to do anything when you've got the UK budget announcement that's going to have a material impact. So. So clearly you're going to wait, see what happens there. [00:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:17] Speaker B: And these things don't happen overnight, so. [00:17:21] Speaker A: Right, so now there's a host of this. Me or you? [00:17:27] Speaker B: I'm. I'm jumping. So I'm just looking at the end of the list. You've got. Thank, listeners, do you have a list of them by name? It won't take long to go through. [00:17:34] Speaker A: No, no, we could probably do that actually. [00:17:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:38] Speaker A: Yeah. It'd probably take us about two minutes. Anyway, sorry, you're the host. [00:17:43] Speaker B: You go, you go. Sorry. You tell us what's next. [00:17:46] Speaker A: Right, Quizzes. So we agreed two weeks ago now that we'd do a little sort of festive quiz for one another. You, your questions are based on igamingbusiness.com My questions are based on the H2 Gambling Capital website. Would you like to go first? [00:18:11] Speaker B: No, I'd like you to. You to bat first, please. [00:18:16] Speaker A: Okay. [00:18:17] Speaker B: No, you to bowl first. I'll bat first. I'll take the first question. Yeah. [00:18:20] Speaker A: Oh, anyway, quizzing. [00:18:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:18:25] Speaker A: First question. As of 6pm yesterday, how many data files have been downloaded from the H2 database in the past week? [00:18:34] Speaker B: We've just done some analysis on downloads and I believe we had 35,000 downloaded last year. 35 divided by 5 will be 7. 6082. [00:18:53] Speaker A: 735. What? Yeah. [00:19:00] Speaker B: 735 downloaded. Yeah. [00:19:05] Speaker A: It's on your data wall. Yeah. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:19:09] Speaker A: Yeah, don't look at that. Don't cheat. Don't confuse. [00:19:14] Speaker B: Fine. Okay. Clearly there's something wrong with our tracking and analytics. That's. Oh, yeah. It's still 100 a day. But you know, we should be. You think More. Okay. I mean, that's quite a way out. [00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah. What procedures? [00:19:33] Speaker B: Not my question. Now. Are we doing alternate? [00:19:35] Speaker A: All right. Shall we alternate? Okay. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:37] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:38] Speaker B: Okay. According to ChatGPT, right. What is iGaming? Business's best article of 2025. [00:19:51] Speaker A: I know her most read. [00:19:54] Speaker B: I doubt so the two it's got here it's got its own pick and a very close runner up. And they're both. I'll give you a clue. They are both published in the past five days. [00:20:10] Speaker A: On the past five days. That would be salary survey and influential women. [00:20:18] Speaker B: No. What's your most read? [00:20:23] Speaker A: Times Square. The Caesars Casino hearing with Jay Z. That was ranking above a vice in New York Times for a while. I mean, it's big numbers. I mean, it was a very good article, but yeah, I mean, that just basically went a bit viral. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Was that written by your favorite. Your favorite writer, Jess? Is it Jess Morkozy? [00:20:45] Speaker A: They're all my favorites. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Was it written by him? So according to ChatGPT, his pick for iGaming Business's best article. How 2025 became the year US states turned against Sweepstakes Casinos by Pat Evans. [00:21:01] Speaker A: That is a great article and it. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Stands out because it's a proper year in review that stitches together legislation and enforcement across multiple states, not just a single news hit. And it anchors the story with clear definitions and market sizing. It also looks forward explicitly tracking what's coming in 2026. Very close runner up, Aftershock. How the UK tax hike is recasting Gibraltar's eye gaming economy. It's strong because it quantifies exposure, documents the policy shock, and explores second order effects like restructuring, market exits and black market risk. Written by Martin Bjork. [00:21:40] Speaker A: I think that's representative of what IGB does. In any week. Yeah, in any week you will find outstanding work. Got a very good team. [00:21:52] Speaker B: Okay, so you've talked about how few things are downloaded from ours. And I've given you a platform to wax lyrically about your hard hitting, insightful journalism. Let's move on to question two. This wasn't how I was hoping it would go. [00:22:04] Speaker A: What percentage of global gross win will come from Oceania in 2025 according to H2 gambling capital? [00:22:14] Speaker B: I want to say somewhere between like 0.6 and 1.2. Is it more than 1%? Oh, no, Australia's. Australia's got the pokies. I'll go with 1.4%, please. Bob. [00:22:30] Speaker A: 0.13. Yes. [00:22:35] Speaker B: The pokeys are big. No, no, that's. [00:22:38] Speaker A: Stop disputing your own data. [00:22:40] Speaker B: No, no, the poke. Yeah, I'm trying to. Yeah, so yeah, there's anglass. Including lotteries. Yeah. [00:22:50] Speaker A: A. I just pulled it off total. [00:22:52] Speaker B: Rather than betting in gaming. Yeah, no, okay, yeah, fair enough. God, I'm doing badly at this. Again, back to ChatGPT. I asked how many articles have been posted on igaming Brazil business, igame business Brazil this year. And he asked me whether it was all Brazil tag posts in 2025 or only original news or analysis, excluding republished reports. So I've said all Brazil tag posts. So how many articles being posted under igaming business? Brazil's tag in 2025. So under igaming business, I'm tagged with Brazil. So it's not just igaming business Brazil. I'll give you within 10. [00:23:40] Speaker A: Is it over a thousand. [00:23:44] Speaker B: According to this? 71. 71. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Now let's go that round. [00:23:52] Speaker B: So you reckon over a thousand articles this year, Three articles a day tagged. [00:23:56] Speaker A: With Brazil, One or two articles a day. See if I can break it down by geo. So let me have a look at excerpt. Oh, yeah, way more than 71. I mean, if it's tagged to Brazil, could just. It depends how you spell Brazil as well. It could just be picking up the translated articles because obviously we offer a content and so. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean like. Yeah, close to a thousand. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Fair enough. [00:24:30] Speaker A: Right then who is? No fact. Let's stick with Brazil. What market share did Sporting Bet have in Brazil in 2025? [00:24:41] Speaker B: Sporting bet. What market share did it have in Brazil in May? [00:24:45] Speaker A: I can see your eyes flicking about as you frant. Google it. [00:24:48] Speaker B: No, no, I'm not Googling it because Google won't pick up a lot of stuff. Yeah, Again, I've got two numbers in my head. I'm trying to work out which one. I've got around 4.8 or 7.1%. And I'm thinking, so I had super bet around 7 and there were. I'll go with. Could be around 5.6. I'll go with. Don't think style. I'll go with 4. 5.8. I'll go with 6.4%. 5%, 5%. I kind of think ballpark, you know, it's not. I told you, I was thinking in the fours or sixes. Yeah, okay, fine, 5%. Yeah, yeah. And you know, and they would have been on our numbers. They would have Therefore been the fourth biggest operator. Yep. [00:25:49] Speaker A: About that. [00:25:50] Speaker B: Botano bet, 365, super bet, sporting Bet, and then Esport de Sort or Bet National. Esport du Solter. [00:26:00] Speaker A: Yeah, just clone back a bit of credibility there. Well done. Do you want to do one more question each? [00:26:07] Speaker B: Well, I've still got to ask your third one yet. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. One more each. [00:26:11] Speaker B: Have you only asked me two? Now you've asked me three, so. No. So I owe you A third one and then one. [00:26:16] Speaker A: All right. Yeah. Well, let's do one more from you. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Okay. Right. Okay. According to Chat GPT, you see the preparation I've done for this? [00:26:27] Speaker A: So I sat going through the H2 site thinking about, right. What have we talked about, what's kind of could be adjacent. And you've gone what is iGaming business to your ChatGPT iteration named after your dog, this. [00:26:44] Speaker B: So, come on, a bonus question then, Robin, give me a bonus one bonus question. [00:26:49] Speaker A: All right. In June 2025, adding up the estimates for visible and invisible offshore, how much unlicensed GGR was generated in Brazil? And a bonus point for the onshore. [00:27:05] Speaker B: What's a June 2025. What's the unlicensed GGR in Brazil? In Brazilian reais. So the license was about, say, 3. Did it drop down to about 2.8 or 3.2? Let's go with 3. I'll go with 3.1. Felt licensed. And I reckon that in that month, about 28% of the market was offshore. So 3.1 divided by 0.72. Am I allowed a calculator? Okay, so that means. No, no, no, no, no. So it'd be just under. So half of that would be 36%. So that would be 1.6. So I would put it between 1.35 and 1.4 billion. Range. [00:28:04] Speaker A: 299. Very close. Very close. It was. It's incredible to see you do the workings, but we have been going for some time now, so. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Robin, I've got a bonus question for you. [00:28:20] Speaker A: Okay. All right, fine. Let's do the bonus question, then. We better wrap up for the year. [00:28:25] Speaker B: According to God and any other higher powers that anyone may or may not believe in, who that could be viewed as a source of truth. Who is igaming business's most valued partner? [00:28:43] Speaker A: Think about that. I would say Ed, you ever heard of a company called H2 Gambling Capped. [00:28:51] Speaker B: And he's the winner. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Congratulations, Robin. You have won the quiz. I will doth my imaginary cap. [00:29:01] Speaker A: I mean, of all of all this Christmas items, tat. Whatever you want to call it. And no Santa hat. Very disappointing. [00:29:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't have one. I did. I was looking for that. Right. Naughty. Nice lists. Sorry? You're in charge. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Do. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Okay. Naughty list. I would put Gordon Brown, Rachel Reeves, the general politicians in the Netherlands, and anyone who puts out data with unsubstantiated claims. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:30] Speaker B: The nice list. Yep. I would put. Better put Kyle Goldsmith because I still get grumpy about my things I've seen before. The nice list. Don't know. I think you should do the nice list. [00:29:44] Speaker A: Okay, Nice list. [00:29:46] Speaker B: Anyone doing predictions as well? In case you haven't gathered anti prediction. [00:29:50] Speaker A: Markets, are they going the naughty or the nice list? [00:29:53] Speaker B: They're going the naughty list. [00:29:55] Speaker A: That's good. [00:29:55] Speaker B: To clarify and nice list, I will start with Nevada regulator for being the first one to stand up to them. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Yep, nice list. I think that's fair. Mark A Mike Wright, sir A. What else would they say? Probably say Jonathan Jostle really enjoyed talking to him. Think what he's doing is really interesting. Doing some great stuff in downtown Vegas. Wayne Shaw because thanks to predictions, I hadn't thought about him for years and I felt quite sad at what he had to go through. So he needs, you know, he deserves a good Christmas company wise. I mean the ones that I think have, you know, are doing really well this year. Alwyn National Lottery transition could have been a lot messier. I think, you know, in a very difficult scenario they've done an outstanding job. Also really interesting to see them grow. Superbet Botano. [00:30:45] Speaker B: I think they're leaders gonna say both of those. I think they've done very well. Super. And Botano really came through. Are you gonna put Beth365 on there for leaving China? Well, I assume you're gonna put YOLO on there for their. For their transformational pivot that's gonna change the industry. [00:31:03] Speaker A: I put the people that have a. I've put the people that I believe should be in the. Not the nice list on the nice list. I'm sticking with that. [00:31:12] Speaker B: Okay. All right. If you're doing people from personal view, I would add who's been helpful to me this year from Karin, you. I'd actually put you on the nice list. Robin. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:31:25] Speaker B: It's all right. You don't have to reciprocate it. Your latam liaisons help me. Liliana Costa. I'll put her on the nice list. [00:31:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:33] Speaker B: And you know what? I'm going to put Sophie on the nice list. Sophie Webster, your boss. [00:31:39] Speaker A: Yeah, Sophie is. Sophie is a big fan of Sophie. [00:31:44] Speaker B: Is it Christmas break this time coming up? Is that why you're saying that? No. Okay. [00:31:48] Speaker A: No, no, no. Genuinely, it's. I mean, believe it or not, I get to work with a lot of great people and very grateful for that. And genuinely, I mean this, I really enjoy doing this with you. I'm not sure anyone in the industry enjoys us doing this or even acknowledges that we do it. But it has been a lot of. [00:32:09] Speaker B: Fun over the past year and hopefully informative at times. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Yes. At other times, as we see from the sort of end of year wrap up, it's mainly us going. [00:32:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe people from around. Let's. Let's call it. Let's call it global. Maybe our global listenership didn't quite want to know as much about Sheffield Wednesday or Celtic as we told them. [00:32:37] Speaker A: No. But we planted the seed. We planted the seed. So next year we can continue talking about that. [00:32:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So. Good question. Yes. No, we are expecting to have a preferred bidder announced in the next few days. Well, not necessarily announced, submitted to the efl. Whether they want to be public or not is a different matter. [00:32:56] Speaker A: And on that note of Christmas cheer and hope, we will leave you for 2020 25. Genuinely, if you've listened, thank you. We know it's a bit chaotic. We're trying to do something a bit different with varying degrees of success, but we have a lot of fun doing it, even if most of our listeners are probably having less fun. But we'll be back in 2026 whether you like it or not. So obviously a huge thanks to Ed here. Every week he puts himself up, gets compared to the weakest part of a duel and somehow keeps coming back for more. So have a great holiday and we'll see you in the new year. [00:33:41] Speaker B: And God, what if you don't listen because you won't hear this, then go do one. Yeah, we can say that.