Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Right, okay. So hello everyone.
Welcome to Right to the Source. We're live at Las Vegas. I'm here as ever with the Robin to my Batman. I might have used that one before.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: You've used that one before.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: All right, well we're doing a few of these each day. I can't think of a new jewel for each one.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Okay, later.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll edit in Mum, where you're the weaker member of the Jew. That's always.
[00:00:35] Speaker C: He is, he's the weaker.
[00:00:36] Speaker A: He's always a weaker member.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: I'm the talent, he's the host.
[00:00:41] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: I mean talent, host, producer, you know, it's, it's quite localized. It turns up. But anyway, we are here with Jonathan.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Jo, by the way, Jonathan. This is the first time I've ever seen him have questions like this is the most organized been on any.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Honest. I'm actually prepared for this one.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: This one.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: All right, good. Yeah. So I mean you don't really much introduction CEO of the Plaza.
Really, really kind of showcasing downtown to the world with that SM podcast. Whether that's through social media, using influencers. I'm going to ask you about Big John ahead of this.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Ahead of this I've had to explain to Ed who Big John is.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: I assume he something to do with Robin Hood.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: No, he's better than that. He's one of the best figures in the UK at the moment and he's a big fan of the Plaz. But we'll get to that later.
Just to start off, I'm keen to think over your story. So born in South Africa, studied in the uk, came out to Vegas. Now running a Vegas property. One of the youngest personal management license holders in Nevada. So talk us through it, talk us through this.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: Just to be clear, I'm not the youngest today. I might be but at the time I was the youngest licensee in the state of Nevada. When I was 29, I took over as CEO of the Plaza in downtown. But as you said, I was born in South Africa. I grew up in an England, London. I went to university in Birmingham and I moved to Las Vegas in 2007.
And the reason I came about is because when I was at Birmingham, I was doing my thesis on the gambling industry in the UK back in the early 2000s there was talk of Las Vegas style casinos opening up in the UK in Blackpool. And Millennium Dome.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Oh, the Super Casino.
[00:02:28] Speaker C: Those ideas.
And I don't know why I decided to do my thesis on the economic or socio economic impact of those casinos. Other than that I love gambling. I Would go to the bookies, I'd go to the war dog track.
I gamble in the uk, so I love the industry.
I did my thesis on that. And one day I was having lunch around that time with some family, friends, and a gentleman there told me he had just bought six casinos in downtown Las Vegas. His name was Poyu Zavlodovich and he had a vision for revitalizing downtown Las Vegas.
But he needed someone on the ground. And I was 23.
I was the only person that worked for him at the time.
Well, so I met him. I come out here for work experience, spent a couple of weeks here. It wasn't for me, but I went to work for him in the UK for two years. And then he needed someone on the ground here. And I was the only person who was not married, didn't have any commitments to the UK. So I came out here in 2007 and really just fell in love with downtown and the opportunity that I could be a part of something much bigger. Back then, downtown was definitely not much. All the buildings were run down, there was a lot of neglect. And I saw a potential, although it was a very difficult time whereby we could revitalize downtown Las Vegas and really make it something special.
Fortunately, 18 years later, that's prov that to be a great, great decision I made.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it really does feel like downtown is having a moment. And obviously during your time at the Plaza, before you became CEO, you were heavily involved in renovating that property and really kind of bringing it up to what it is today. So I was wondering if you could talk us through, you know, how that property's changed from somewhere maybe about run down, particularly attractive to, you know, really genuinely destination, something to respect.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Yeah, it's definitely become, it's on the map now. It's something. See, when they come to town, and it's kind of crazy because the Plaza is located on one Main Street. It's the first address in the history of Las Vegas where the whole city was founded. And it was a thousand room hotel. It was a really iconic building in the 70s. And then it just got neglected. And as downtown sort of got forgotten and the Strip developed, all these buildings sort of got run down.
When I came out here, it was in really bad shape financially, but also just physically. And then there was the big recession of 2007 with the subprime market that collapsed.
And the opportunity presents itself where the Fountain crew was selling its furniture because it went bankrupt into it. Oh, I kind of bought it. And we ended up buying all of the furniture out of the Phantompoor. In 2008, 2009, we shut down the plaza. We did a big remodel. We remodeled the whole place. We reopened it, and that was sort of the beginning of me learning about the industry. But we didn't finish the remodel the way we should have. And so over the next four or five years, we continued to remodel the pool, the convention center, the steakhouse. We really continue to evolve, and a lot of people said, you should knock it down and start again. But I just believe that we can take the plaza from what it was with a bit of investment and really improve it.
So far, we're on a good trajectory. We've got more things we want to do. Some new ideas we still want to do, but we have fun there. We try things that other people aren't trying. We have 16 pickleball courts. We have an equestrian center, outdoor equestrian centre for rodeos.
We do fireworks every Friday night. We put some murals on the building. So we're really. And we do the only bingo in downtown in the strip. Only bingo.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Big Washington.
[00:05:53] Speaker C: And that's a really big deal for us.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: So, strangely, is a horse.
It is a horse. Audio. Oh, yeah.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Not rodeo.
Although I did go to ranch in Montana for a couple of weeks last year.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: I went to the rodeo there. That was pretty something.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: I might be the only Jewish English guy running rodeos in Las Vegas. I should know nothing about that industry. But it's something that's really. It's big in Las Vegas. And it's really cool the way it's taken off and helped us to expose us to a whole new demographic downtown.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: And some of it's pretty brutal, isn't it? Like, it's.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: It's pretty crazy. Yeah. I put my son on there. They do mutton busting the baby.
Have you seen that? Where they ride the shoe?
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Unbelievable. Yeah, it's very bizarre.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: So, like I always said until this week, Vegas was my favorite place on earth. Like as first. As soon as I first came, I then came like another 12 times in the next six years.
A couple of times for work. But mainly just.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: To be honest, I've been pretty disappointed this time. I haven't been to my graduate party in 2018, and it just feels. Lots of stuff's changed. Like blackjack.
Doing six to five rather than three to two. No grandfathering at minimum.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Bets.
What?
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Still, things feel so. Just trying to squeeze money out of you rather than the fun.
Do you think that's something where actually downtown. You know, has an advantage that it's a spot character, that maybe the Strip is just turning money grabbing more than it was. Or is that unfair for you to say?
[00:07:18] Speaker C: Yeah, no, first, I hate to hear that because it's a bad message for Las Vegas that that's how people are feeling. But it is something that I'm hearing more and more. Downtown were really co.
We always have been. Dancing has always been known as a better gamble than the Strip. The problem was downtown was sort of run down. There wasn't good restaurants, there wasn't good hotels, there weren't nice pools. Now that we've done all of that, we have the good gambling and we have nice amenities and offerings. But yeah, of course, downtown, you know, every game you won't find 65, blackjack almost. You'll have to really struggle to find that. We have single cereal roulette on the Strip. They have triple cereal roulette, which is amazing, right.
10 times odds on craps. So, yeah, we have still got those same traditional offerings. And I think there'll be a shift on the Strip as well as places start to adjust back to reality that people are feeling this way. And it's not a good message.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: If we look at first eight months of the year, statewide gaming's up 1%. Strip gaming is up 1%. Downtown's up 2%.
Vista numbers are down 8%. So, you know, for the full year, you're looking at having about 3.3 million fewer people coming.
How sustainable is it to keep us getting more revenue from.
[00:08:30] Speaker C: From the same people.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Well.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: Or from less people.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: So.
[00:08:33] Speaker C: So the interesting thing is, you know, people out there saying Vegas is dead. Vegas, that's clearly not the case. You look around, Vegas is packed.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: I mean, business numbers are down 8%. That still means 92% of people are here. It's not as if it's like a base camp.
[00:08:47] Speaker C: And, you know, we also had really, really record months from euros from 22, 23, 24. 24 was most people's best year they ever had in this town. And so the idea that you're going to keep replicating that is very hard. You know, there's an expression, trees don't the sky. And how much can you keep growing every single year? So if we're seeing occupancy is down, we're still seeing good spend, especially the food and beverage and casino side of things. And if you have a down year from your best year ever, but it's still a really, really good year, is that a tremendously worrying trend? The bigger Issue is what you're saying, which is, are people leaving feeling like they didn't have a good time and saying, oh, Vegas has lost its pizzazz and its luster. That's something that I think we have to adjust to. But I think long term veg Vegas is in very good hands. And the other thing, you know, with Vegas right now is it's become very event driven. You know, 10 years ago we never had the sphere, Allegiant Stadium, Team Mohawk Stadium. We didn't have all these F1. So all these big events that are becoming WrestleMania, all these big events are what people are talking about right now. But there was a time 10 years ago where people just came to Vegas to have fun, drinking, gamble. And I think we need to get that message back as well. You don't have to come in to see Beyonce or the Backstreet Boys. You can come in, just have a great time, have fun.
I think that's a message that we're trying to get out there now.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Talking about T Mobile. I'm going to my first NHL game this week. Oh, good evening, Vegas. Nice.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: Nothing like a Golden Knights game. They're great.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Yeah, we're looking forward to that.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: That's on Wednesday.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah, Wednesday we're going. Yeah.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: But yeah, Vegas is definitely needs to adjust some of its things to continue to grow some of the feedback that we're hearing.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: So it's an interesting point you made there because obviously you have all these new sports. Do you feel that essentially is making visitations or by appointment it's less organic?
[00:10:43] Speaker C: I do. I think it's making it by appointment. It's a great way of describing it. But it's also making Vegas more expensive because these concerts and these events are so expensive that people are feeling overall their experience is getting more and more expensive. And then room rates go up because you've got the Eagles, you've got all these amazing experiences. So then things get more expensive and people start to say, oh, Vegas is overpriced. So partly it's by appointment, partly it's gotten expensive. The other thing I would say is look at the stats. Vegas is down in the last couple of months in occupancy. But look at Miami, look at other big tourist markets. They're all down too. So it's not just a Vegas issue. Tourism as a whole seems to be down the last couple of months. And that's, you know, maybe it's just a little blip and things readjust and.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: Then just going back to the plaza. Who would you say the Target customer at this state. Who is the archetypal Plaza customer today? Or is it even?
[00:11:35] Speaker C: I can answer that in two ways. So on the casino side, our core customers, really the Midwest and California, that's our biggest drive market. But the Midwest is really our customer base, whether it's Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Texas.
We also see a lot of good customers from Hawaii. What I love about the Plaza is that yes, you have your Ford Casino customer, but we also have this week we have a bingo tournament for 850 slot. 850 bingo players, predominantly 70, 80 year old ladies.
Last weekend we had a music festival where we had 21 year old, 25 year old younger people. Next the month later, we'll have the rose.
So we're constantly adapting to what's happening in town and the events that we're having which allow us to sort of change our customer base every few weeks.
It's always evolving.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: It's fascinating. And obviously there's been a lot more visibility for Plaza in the uq.
And Warren Joe's going to talk about him. And that is, that does feel a big part because of Big John.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: You're so excited about this. All he's been met. What's happening about Big John?
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Big John.
[00:12:41] Speaker C: Do you know Big John?
[00:12:42] Speaker B: I don't know. So I asked him, I was like, is that a brother of Luke? Little John, His Alpha sake. But I asked, sorry, I did mention it with a buddy in Arkansas who's English.
And I mentioned it to him way over and he's like, yeah, of course I know Big John is Bosch. And I'm like, it's just missed me.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: Well.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: When you see some venues, you'll get it.
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: But obviously Big John has become this incredible figure in the uk. How did that relationship come about?
[00:13:12] Speaker C: You actually won't believe it, but a friend of mine on Instagram, he lives in New York, was sending me his algorithm must be very weird. He was sending me videos of Big John, this giant man eating disgusting looking Chinese food. And I just deleted. Deleted. And then I got the fourth guy started watching.
[00:13:31] Speaker C: And I watched like the fifth and he. And he would send it to me like every couple of days. I was like, why is he sending me this guy? So finally, I don't know why, an idea popped into my head. I'm going to DM this guy and say, I'll fly you to Vegas if you have dinner with my friend. Yeah, that was sending me these weird videos I did as a prank for my friend. And I didn't tell him, so I DM him and with the in a minute, he replies, yeah, I'd love to come out. I'll come in. Free trip to Vegas and can I bring my wife? And at the time, he wasn't that big in the uk, and I don't know why I said yes, but I said yes. So he flies out with his wife. My friend comes out. I coordinate at the same time, and I did it as a joke, but he turned out to be the most lovely guy. And in the six months from when I DM'd him to when he actually came out, his audience, Lua, he became, like you said, much bigger in the uk, all my friends in England sending me his videos. And he turned to me, this lovely guy. He's got a lovely family and his son's a buck or so. Now we sponsor his son and I would actually say we become good friends. Now. He comes about two or three times a year.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:14:28] Speaker C: Sometimes for boxing, sometimes he was just flown out here by Netflix for the Canelo Falcon fight.
He comes out a fair bit and he's lovely. And like you said in the uk, everyone loves him. And that's how our relationship started. And now we've become good friends.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: I mean, in my defense, I'm not on Instagram, so.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: But Big John is. I mean, he's a national treasure.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: He's a national treasure.
I agree. Well, we'll send him a picture of this afterwards and you'll send them a message.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: Look how much you're smiling. You generally love this.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: He's good.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: He's from Essex, isn't he?
[00:15:04] Speaker C: No, Romford.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: Yeah, Romford.
Yeah.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: It's the kind of part that he's.
[00:15:09] Speaker C: Literally famous for eating disgusting looking Chinese food and making a big order of Chinese food. Pork balls, chicken balls, sweet and sour. K, pal, this.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: And that's what you need to do to get com to the Plaza. Just eat.
[00:15:22] Speaker C: Yeah, no, he's become. He's become a good friend of us.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: So on downtown, taking it back away from Robin's crush.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: So year to date, it's made 600 million of gaming revenue, strips of 5.77 billion.
I mean, is the scope for much growth downtown or is it just more a function of. This is we're not going to get more casinos. You know, we kind of. This is what we've got. And if we can kind of grow at a few percent a year, that's.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: The kind of good thing.
[00:15:53] Speaker C: No, I think there's tremendous growth downtown. And so your numbers are good. And downtown is roughly 10% of the whole citywide Market. But we see that number growing. It has been growing over the last couple of years. And so there's a new casino downtown that opened last year. I could see in the next couple of years another new casino.
We have 17 acres of land that's undeveloped. I would love to build a brand new hotel tower with a new casino downtown. I think downtown drilling for a higher end product.
So my philosophy right now is if I meet a customer who's staying at a mid tier property, I know I can get that person to stay downtown. If I meet someone staying at Venetian, Wynn, Bellagio and they're gambling downtown, I know that probably they're not going to want to stay downtown. They might come and have dinner, they might come and gamble. But if I could build a room for a spa and some amenities that I know I can keep that customer. Those players will come downtown because it's better gambling. It's got the historical element. Some people think it's more fun. So I think there's a huge amount of gold still to that gaming number that you just mentioned.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: No, because I've only been downtown once or twice and I loved it, I mean say once on my bachelor party. So I can't remember too much about, but I think we're gonna head down there tonight. Just because I said I've done the straight. I've been to all the nice casinos now staying in a mid range one that quite sucks.
[00:17:10] Speaker C: You don't see the name?
[00:17:12] Speaker B: No, you don't see the name.
[00:17:14] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: You don't spray something off, mate.
[00:17:16] Speaker C: You don't see the name.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: But.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm super excited to go downtown. Let's feel it's got.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: The strip's got personality insofar as wherever you are see, Pelagio's got this personality.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: Whereas the Strip, its.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: I feel downtown has a certain different feel and personality.
[00:17:39] Speaker C: It's got the history, it's got the connection to the mob. We have a steakhouse called Oscars named after Oscar Goodman, who was the old attorney to the mob.
Then he became the mayor of Las Vegas. If you've ever seen the movie Casino that was filmed in our steakhouse. So the idea of the history tied with the mob, tied with the old neon and light bulbs. There's so much greatness happening in downtown, but you had to upgrade the amenities. And now that you're seeing that, I think people on the strip are coming down there more and more and frankly enjoying it more and more. And there's still good value downtown as well.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Coming up in time to join us thank you so much for joining us. Really enjoyed it. And I mean, the only way to sign off is the Bash Bash.
