Episode Transcript
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Right to the Source. My name is Robin Harrison and I'm here, as ever, with. Am I gonna call you this week?
[00:00:24] Speaker B: I got called a moron by someone in my office this morning, so.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Well, that's pretty fair.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: With. Well, why he just called himself you say my name. Yeah. Mr. Ed Birkin, moron. According to someone within his office.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Thank you for the slick introduction, Robin. Good to be back. It feels like we've been away for ages because we obviously skipped a week so that our coming of age could be in Las Vegas. I'm not sure if any of those podcasts are out, but we had some great recordings there.
[00:00:51] Speaker A: We're going to have a. Our 21st is going to be one of the people we spoke to in Vegas. I think we go big. I think we've gone big for that one. This is really weird because just before it goes out and we're talking about it as if it's in the past, so I feel like I'm bouncing between tenses, so we should probably stop talking about that.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Will. Will this one go out before that one?
[00:01:13] Speaker A: No.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So you're going to spend a long time delaying this one. Anyway, news. So people are probably wondering why I am wearing a bobble hat inside.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Is it because your office is bitterly cold?
[00:01:26] Speaker B: No, we have heating is breaking news. Won't be breaking news when. By the time this comes out, but the Owls have formally been placed into administration, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned because I think it's the only way to get the owner out. Have a reset. We'll get a point deduction, which means we'll get relegated and hopefully do like Derby county did a. A few years ago and kind of bounce back stronger, rebuild. The short term pain is part of supporting a club. Yeah.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And your old manager has gone to a team in Glasgow.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, no one else wanted him, so.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: No. Good.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Good tactician. But, yeah, I think he let himself down with his behavior at the club. But anyway, you know what? Let bygones be bygones and. And good luck to him.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: That's very big of you. And he.
His first game was last night. He was playing, I think the. The team that's third or fourth in the Norwegian League and they lost.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: I say bring back Big al. Get Ali McCoyce back up there.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Ali McCoy is one that. Yeah, it's impossible not to like Ali McCoist.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: It is impossible not to like.
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Do you think we'll ever be viewed as like, like a talk sport in the morning. ALI McCOIST and oh, Stamer. I love him.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Do you ever listen to it?
[00:02:44] Speaker A: I don't actually. Not for.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Oh, my God. This is embarrassing. Never mind. Right, so let's just quickly recap the sports then. So Wednesday and administration. I went on Saturday to watch them away at Charlton. That was terrible. We lost. Left before the end, which I know some people disagree with, but hey.
Then went to the NFL to watch the Jags. They were appalling. Left before the end of that. There were actually three Americans behind me who left at the end of the first quarter and I'm jealous I didn't do that. Had a quick check on my new NHL team. The Oilers.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: Yeah, the Edmonton Oilers.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Yep. They played Friday, Saturday, Sunday, last weekend, lost all three. So, I mean, this is, this is going great.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: You're not doing well at the moment, but I can share some of that pain. Celtic lost to Dundee for the first time since 1988. I think it was.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Classic.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: It wasn't great.
We did, however, redeem ourselves on Thursday night by beating Sturm Gratz.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Well, look, we've covered soccer, we've covered ice Hockey, we've covered NFL. What are the major U.S. sport is not. Have you not covered.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Well, why don't we talk about the NBA? We're just into the new season and controversy. We should have some kind of alarm to klaxon to set off when we say that. But. So I was a. I've been in Barcelona the past two days for a light wonder event which was very good, really, really great people, really interested to see what they're doing and talk to them about what they're doing next. But my phone yesterday started buzzing and it didn't stop buzzing because the NBA, working with the FBI has uncovered, well, has made a load of arrests linked to gambling. Now, I think it's important to say in the case of some people like Chauncey Billups ob Obviously that wasn't to do with sports betting.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: No, that was the poker ring.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that was a poker ring.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: So that was Mafia poker ring. Nope. Pass bourbon or not. Same, same. Shit happens. Yeah, exactly. Just, just forget.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. So not connected to sports betting.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Terry Rosier, however, of the Miami Heats, in case people don't know what happened, he came off injured after nine minutes during a game and told people beforehand that. That he was going to come off early and therefore they wagered things about $200,000 on UNDIS like, you know, he's going to score. You know, do Fewer points for rebounds, etc. And they made allegedly FBI say, not me, tens of thousands of dollars from this, which they went around to his house and kind of counted out. We don't know if this was, I don't know at the moment if this is with legal bookmakers, illegal bookmakers. I've just seen DraftKings and FanDuel were asked about it and condemned it. I don't know know if any bets were placed on their sites or other ones. What I can say is, what's. What surprises me is a quick Google shows that Terry is paid $24 million a year and he does something so stupid and illegal to make tens of thousands of dollars. I mean these guys are morons. Yeah, they are actually like they honestly just think because they're good at basketball that they're not going to get caught at doing stupid shit like this. And it doesn't not make sense.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: There's always going to be more nuance than that in these situations. On the face of it, what a stupid thing to do. But you never know what other pressures may have affected this. And I think one of the interesting things that I think is going to come out of this is obviously not all these arrests that are linked to legal regulated gambling. However, I think it is going to blow back on that legal regulated industry.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean we've had the mlb, you know, has had a scandal. You know, of course the NFL's gonna have one at some point. You know, the NBA's had one. It's just, it's gonna happen and you know, and, and then if they find out that it is on legal sites, they'd probably be like, well, how did they get 200000 on, you know, how is that not spotted? And we've had the Spanish data this year, which this week, which was part of it. And the Spanish regulator gives loads of data, which is great. Someone like me, he's a bit geeky on it. But it kind of just shows as we already knew how weighted the gambling industry is towards the, the players who lose a lot. So they need, you know, they need to have these guys who are, you know, Putting bets on $200,000 seems like a lot, but you know what, they spread it across books or people. There's more people involved. They're putting a $10,000 bet on, start limiting that. That's just going to push it to the black markets, the legal industry, you know, it's not their fault at all. And who knows, maybe we'll find that it actually works well and it, if it was on legal betting sites, that could be a good thing. If they then flagged it as suspicious activity and that's what did it. Whereas if it's on illegal sites, they're not going to flag that stuff as suspicious activity and these guys would have just got away with it. So actually I kind of hope it was on the legal sites that these bets came through and they showed this is how it works and this is why legal betting is good for sports integrity. But it doesn't matter about that reality. The fact is there's going to be lots of media and like that. That's just going to be, you know, we've allowed sports betting in the U.S. yeah, guess what? It happened before Paspa. And you know, now we've got scandals and it's just, it's just press. The industry doesn't need.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: No, and I think really what's crucial is how the industry reacts because there are going to be people lining up to see how bad the industry is and whether they are involved or not. There needs to be clear and consistent.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Messaging because not being unfair, maybe it is unfair. I would hazard a guess that the industry's response to this will be suboptimal messy and should be better if we're going by the industry's response to most things over the recent history.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that is my worry. We really do not need this as an industry.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: So speaking about messy things in the industry, why don't we just go on to something else controversial and you know, say how it is playtech evolution.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: Another thing.
Yes. So another thing that I think the industry doesn't need.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: But okay, let's play devil's advocate because you did it when you were going on about, you know, how virtuous, you know, illegal operators are for closing down their business and winding me up on that. So, so I'll just play the asshole here. So playtech have admitted they funded this report into evolution. They're saying it's not a smear campaign, it's just a, they want to, you know, they, they accuse evolution of doing some illegal underhand practices, etc. And they think that should be known. Now, I've seen most viewers like playtech shouldn't be doing this shit. You know, they're not whiter than white themselves and it's all underhand and it's bad for the industry. Playtech now doubled down and said, yeah, yeah, we did it, but we know we back the ball. Let's say these allegations, there is some something to the allegations which people obviously Some people believe there are. Hence the Evolution share price over the period of time. Is it wrong for playtech to do that? Is it wrong for them to try and call it out? And then obviously they would want to hide it because otherwise, you know, they can just say, well, it's our competitor saying that. So I kind of get why they've hit. I'm not saying that any of this is right, but let's just look at the other side that people aren't talking about. What's wrong. If this is an industry you want cleaning up.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: With some bad practices. What's wrong with calling it out?
Maybe playtech are the hero in this one. By the way, this is Devil's outfit.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: Let's just.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: Let's just see that.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: All right. You can't keep up the pretense for the episode like I did.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: But. No, but, you know, if they're calling out stuff that's. That's wrong, then, you know, okay, they benefit, obviously, as their main competitor, but. Yeah, well, allegedly. By the way, we're not saying Evolution have done any of this.
It's all been. It's all been, you know, interviews have been cut to make it sound wrong and all that stuff. So there's. And all of this is going to probably be aired and. Which is going to be terrible for the industry in terms of all the dirty laundry being aired. Because either. Let's get to the crux of it. Either Evolution has been doing some really bad shit. Yeah. Or playtech has effectively hired someone who has made up stuff, accusing them of doing bad shit, and they haven't. Both of those scenarios are look terrible on the industry. Or the third scenario.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: Both of these are hypothetical scenarios, obviously. Yeah.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: No, no, but there's two things. So playtech have said, you know, done interviews and said that Evolution are doing this bad stuff, and Evolution have said, no, no, they have falsified this and deliberately misled to make it look like we're doing bad stuff, which we're not. So one of those two things is true. Either they're doing bad stuff or it's been falsified. There's no good outcome. The worst outcome is it turns out that part of it's been falsified and they are doing bad stuff and they're both bad. There's no good outcome out of this.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: No.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Someone has done bad stuff.
[00:11:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone has done bad stuff. I don't want to put allegations in on either side, but I think one of the things this does highlight is there is a bit of A code of a murder around where people are operating. And by operating there, what that means from the supply side is generally we work with these companies, it's where the companies put it. It's therefore at the point of consumption. But this is changing. Like we're seeing this, we're seeing a lot of talk about supplier licensing and that is going to come with probity. If you think back to, you know, Senator Adabo's bill for I Gaming New York, there were some clauses in there that did put a lot of scrutiny on the suppliers and there's been talk.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: For a while, let's be honest, there's no scrutiny on suppliers yet.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: There's just no but, but it's something that thing that could well be coming and I think, I think what this does is what this situation and kind of just say actually excellent work by Zach Thomas AKU at Next. You know, we followed this case from the start and it's great to see someone with just apply that tenacity to it. You know, I think, I think fair's fair next door competitor, but I think great work on the reporting side.
I've seen some criticism of how it was reported on social media and I think that's unfair in the work that Zach did. And I will, you know, play, you know, as a journalist. Yeah, I would have largely done the same.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: You class yourself as a journalist. Interesting.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Barely. Yeah, okay. Yeah, barely.
But what was I saying? I would say, I think, I don't know. Oh no, I mean, I'm just, I'm.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Just still thinking about the fact that you said that both Evolution and playtech have, have, have done terrible things. But. No, that's fine.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: No, you're talking hypothetical.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: If we're moving, if is the industry actually moving towards suppliers having more probity on them?
Think it is?
[00:13:29] Speaker A: No, like I think, I think ultimately especially for that, that regulated kind of cohort of tier ones like if you think back to the EGBA letter from last year about the illegal market, if you think about the messaging from the associations from the operators they are pushing hard against the black market activity is sort of the industry that is the bogeyman that they want to. Well, the bogeyman and genuinely the threat to their businesses that they are trying to highlight to regulators and I think with that messaging. Let me finish with that messaging, it's going to be impossible for suppliers not to be caught up in that.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: I think that is mostly bullshit and I will tell you why. Most suppliers, not all, but a large number of suppliers are supplying Operators in regulated markets and also operators who are not licensed in those markets and they can get hide behind aggregators and stuff like that. But doing it now, if you're, if you, if you really wanted to go all out and someone's going to tell me, and I'm probably wrong here, someone was going to, if there's enough people listen, they'll tell me why this isn't reality. But let's say you're a flutter for instance, or about 365 or other companies available and you're a market, then as you could say, we are not accepting your games on our regulator site because if they continue to be seen on unregulated sites, now if everyone got together and did that and he got rid of a game, then fine, but the fact is that what probably happened is the others wouldn't and therefore that person who's standing up to them would be at a significant disadvantage because they wouldn't have the same content as everyone else in the market. And that's why they're not, although they want to get rid of the legal market, they're not willing to do the hard stuff. So you know, and that's, that's how part of the, so the, the Netherlands illegal market and we're getting on the Netherlands at some point, you know, there's work done by the Dutch lottery and some of the suppliers like show them data showing how much, you know, time and you know, people were spending on legal sites and playing their games and it's like, okay, so they know their suppliers are actually supplying illegal operators, yet they continue to supply the legal market as well. That's not standing up to it. I mean look at Evolution's, you know, latest release Q3 last week, earlier this week they have, they put it there, they have 46% share of their revenue from regulated markets. You know, okay, that's gone up from 39% in you know, the same quarter last year. But still over half of their, over half of their revenue is coming from non regulated markets. Now we're not here saying well it's not regulated, what's right, what's wrong. But the supplier side, it is just, you know, some people may believe those numbers, some people may not, but they're not going to have, they're not going to have low balled it, are they? So I don't believe that we are getting closer at all. There's, there's an idea that some of the US States are going to really kind of look at this and say, you know, you couldn't get in with unregulated revenue. But all the suppliers are doing evolution is the biggest supplier in the US and they make less than half their revenue from regulated markets.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: I think that's fair. Like I think it is very difficult. But you see some attempts, like for example Typical's preferred partners program, the idea is that you want to work with suppliers with probity. I mean I think there needs to be an element of incentivization to get the suppliers to go over there. But equally I can sympathize with the suppliers similar to the operators where operating in regulated markets is very difficult. It's very, very hard to make money these days because I mean you said to me, and I quote if I was an operator starting out today, I wouldn't work in regulated markets. And so it's a good thing you're not an operator. But at the same time the regulation is not acting as a facilitator. We've talked about it previously how economic development arguments just do not work. The legal side, the regulators, the governments, they need to consider this. They need to consider the fact that regulated markets are seen as a blocker or a money pet rather than an opportunity. And I think that's really at the crux of this. This isn't just about the suppliers. It's not about a bun fight between two industry leading suppliers. It's not just about the operators that are kind of straddling the kind of white and gray line or even the ones that are fully in the black. The regulators also need to be part of this conversation.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: Yeah, they do. And you know it's, you know, I only see regulation going one way and that's going to be harder for regulator markets. You know, I don't think that's good if you're a supplier. Again, if I was a supplier, you know and I wanted to make money short term view then yeah. And I wasn't listed on the stock exchange again I'd probably be going for you know, offshore markets as well. But I don't think we can just say that makes it fine for these, you know, big corporate if they've done stuff, one thing servicing non regulated markets and that's fine. You know, that's clearly evolution have said, you know, we do that because we have 54% of our revenues are non regulated. That's fine. Shareholders know that that's open and transparent. But it's another if any of this stuff that they've been accused of actually is, is true. Because there's one thing servicing non locally regulated Markets which don't have local licensing, etc. And there's another doing some of the other stuff and I don't think we can. I don't think it's right just say, well, you know, regulated markets aren't very profitable. So, you know, I kind of get why they do it, I get what they do, but it doesn't mean it's right. So.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: No, it doesn't mean if you go.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: All the way back, someone is going to either Playtex done something naughty, Evolution's done something naughty, or they've both done something naughty. There is no way, there is no scenario where he comes out of this, where it goes, no one's done anything wrong and that's going to get aired. And a bit like the NBA. It's just more, more crap on the industry that it probably.
It really doesn't need.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: And that's quite, that's quite a sad thing because this isn't. This, I think, is a pretty good industry.
It's always going to be a very emotive industry and there are always going to be people that fall foul of it. But I don't look kindred.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Just got fined 10, 10 million pounds for recent. Again recent stuff in the UK and like some of the stuff that, like they were. That the Gamma Commission said they're doing, it's just basic stuff. It's a minimum you'd expect. And it's just shit like that. People just don't help themselves. Whether it's ignorance, greed, thinking, they get away with it. They're an exception. Like, I agree the industry doesn't need any of this bad press, but so much of it is bought on themselves. They deserve some of these fines just completely deserved. Some of the. Being outed is deserved. And I think the industry is its own worst enemy. There you go. I've just isolated everyone in the industry. It's okay. Cool. Right, quickly on the Netherlands. I know you don't like to talk about the Netherlands because we always talk about it, but they have the H1 numbers out and this is just great to have some, some data that shows this. Now they increase the tax rate. Yeah. And tax revenue fell now bit. It's not quite as simple as that because they did have the kind of deposit limits which came in, which also hampered the market. Yeah. But when you got the tax rate going from 30.5 to 34.2% and tax revenue going from 237 falling 13% down to 205 million, you kind of go, okay, well, tax rate probably didn't help on that in terms of the market falling. And then they're going to increase 37.8% in January 2026.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: Two brands also pulling out to the market in that.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: And then the land based guys have been more affected and some of the shops are closing and it just, it's pretty much a blueprint for how not to regulate a market. But you know what, the way things are going in, I mean Brazil, according to this great website igamingbusiness.com it was reported that the cold.
Don't like to repeat it.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Okay, fair enough.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: So yeah, you guys wrote up about the 50% increase in tax in Brazil not passing but now they're looking to double the tax instead and advertising restrictions. And again, is Brazil just going to mirror Netherlands as a blueprint of regulating a market going. There's lots of gambling happening and gambling advertising. We don't want this and then just destroying it and pushing it all to the black market. I don't know.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: I mean it's, it's, it's the usual thing. It's not necessarily that there's more, it's.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: That you see it more visible and it's the marketing and every operator and I see why because there's a massive bum fight from visibility and you know, as we've seen in Brazil that you have to really be a big operator to make, make it all work.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. But the thing is as well there is, yes, advertising is more visible but before generally in the Netherlands especially, there was no above the line marketing before that. So you've gone from zero to 100% but that is starting off at a base of zero.
So yes, it's there and people notice it because it's new.
I think the thing that is really frustrating these markets is the time scale for change has become so truncated. Used to be maybe a year or so post regulation that people would start to kind of look inwards and assess. But then you think about somewhere like Sweden that really kind of kicked this off of much quicker pushback against the industry.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Yeah. You know what, it's tough. You talk about above the line marketing. So one thing we, you know, we feel Quite strongly about H2 is that one of the advantages, the only advantage is a regulated operator has is over an unregulated one, is its ability to advertise and then showcase that they are a regulated operator and kind of really be front of mind.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: So that's why marketing to a certain degree, not a free for all is important for legal operators to have but it brings you back to something that an old colleague of mine said when I was back in banking, who was in the leisure sector, you know, wasn't anti, didn't cover gambling companies, but wasn't anti gambling by any means. And he was just like, you know, he, he just didn't agree with the amount of gambling on UK TV around football advertising. And I get it because he said, you know, I've got a nine year old son who, you know, watch a lot of Premier League football with. And is it right that he's constantly just being bombarded with gambling advertisements like bookmakers and at nine years old, he could probably name 10 bookmakers off the top of his head just like that. And, and I get that. And you're gonna go, you know, yeah, it's. There's two sides to everything. And when you hear something like that, you know, he's not saying should be banned, but he's just like really like is just being completely normalized. And look, maybe gambling should be normal. You know, gambling is normal. But you know, I mean, I think it's been pushed a lot.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: I think normalization is an important thing because normalization means that people talk about something for its merits and it's, it's issues more openly. Like, I mean, like it's a bit cliche to make, to make a comparison with advertising, but not advertising with alcohol. Sorry, but if you look at the alcohol sector, a lot of that is normalized. Like, you know, going to the pub, even getting, let's face it, getting pissed. But then there are elements of it, such as when people might, you know, be over consuming.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: We don't really want to put it on advertising isn't. I don't know the exact rules around advertising. But you don't see.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: No, no, I'm not putting it on advertising, but I'm just saying you don't.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: See Holston Pilsner being. Who is it? Who is it? Who's it who sponsored spurs back in the day? That was a beer brand.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: That was Holstein.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because I assume they're not allowed that anymore.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Not sure. Actually you don't see so many booze advertising. I mean, Celtic were sponsored by Carling tenants. Sorry. I think.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah, well, Scotland is a bit different. I mean, you know, tenants. It's not surprising.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: Well, it's not like we're responsible Buckfast. But you know, Heb's quite recently was sponsored by White and Mackay, you know, the whiskey brand. But I'm not talking, I'm not just talking about advertising here. I'm talking more Broadly about normalizing these, you know, inverted commas. Sen industries. Because there's still some taboos within these conversations and I think that makes it more difficult to actually address some of the negative effects. And I remember.
When was it? It was probably around. Well, I know actually, in fact it was in the Brazil reports IGB did, in partnership with Octo, talking to Alex from Seika from Superbet about gambling in Brazil. And he talked about, he wanted to, you know, he saw a kind of responsibility of creating a legacy. And so, you know, obviously he kind of dug into that a bit in the conversation and he was saying he wants a level of normalization where he can like talk frankly to his kids. It's like, you can do this and you can have fun, but you need to be careful about this. And the thing is, because those L effects and talking about, like, the thing is, you know, if someone wins a bet, they'll talk about if they win, they won't kind of come in and say, oh yeah, it stuck out 100 quid in this.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's very different. You don't hear about people's, people's losses, you know, nothing. But at the same time, like if look at Brazil, you know, you look at a TV screen and there's like seven different, you know, brands being advertised during a football game, like at the same time. And it's just, it's a lot. And I get why people are pushing, pushing back on it, but.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: Well, well, the thing is, I think.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: Normalization and people talking about losses and all that, I think that's, that's a deeper thing.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: We should probably need to spend more of the normalization. And it's something that I think you are starting to see from the alcohol industry in the context of alcoholic beer, non alcoholic beer, even. So you see Heineken advertising it, you see Guinness advertising it.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: And that is, I mean, look, okay, maybe some of them are being really.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: Good at the end of the day.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Is the most amazing advertising in the world because they'll like the Six nations and they'll do all Guinness Zero. It looks as though they're being really responsible advertising. And all they're doing is effectively advertising the Guinness brand. Yes, they're promoting the zero, but it's also promoting Guinness in general. So it's genius. And they get away with not promoting. I mean, it's just that is actually where advertisers of marketing agencies have made their money. Oh, yes.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: No, it's, it works. Well, the fact that, because, you know, it's like, I mean, I'M sure I've probably mentioned it before but you know, I haven't like I don't drink. I haven't drunk for 10 years or so. And when I first stopped drinking it was very much like you're not having a pint, you know, it was a weird thing for people.
But now like sometimes I'd be in a pub and you know, I'm getting three, you know, non alcoholic drinks in a round draft as well. Which is incredible because it was always bloody cans or bottles and that sort of thing. It just, it's showing that people can engage with this thing, can be in that context. But there are kind of healthier or different ways of doing things and I feel that's part of this normalization that you're seeing from the alcohol.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: Everything you said is very interesting and true. I think we're going massively off topic. Well, I mean you could equate that to saying actually people shouldn't bet, they should just do like social casino or no, but, no but by the way, I'm just going to also back up the drinks. Guinness Drink champions.
[00:29:13] Speaker A: Oh yeah, well Guinness zero love it.
[00:29:15] Speaker B: But bringing that off topic here.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: No, I don't think we have. I think with you, you see attempts at it on TV advertising for gambling brands when they're talking about the limits. It was, I think it was for 8, 8, 8 a few years ago, like how much is too much campaign and it used very clever, you know, someone putting sugars in a tea and then putting an absolute shit ton of sugar in their tea. And, and I think people talk about the danger of gambling being normalized but when something is normalized it's much more comfortable for people to talk about.
So this normalization that would actually help create a sustainable industry would actually help make people address problems when they arose but would also differentiate overconsumption and irresponsible advertising from, from a more responsible approach that is being blocked on the regular. Don't get, don't get stuck in alcohol.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: But alcohol is normalized. Yeah, like alcohol is normalized to an extent.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: I think there's still a lot around the ill effects of alcohol that is not normalized.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: None of us thing. But people if they have a problem are still reticent to, you know, say I have with alcohol. But I don't think that's because it's not normal. It's just people just have an issue with doing it. Same with gambling. I think gambling is normal. Like it's just everywhere, all the advertising is normalized but people still don't want to say they've got a problem because, you know. No, it doesn't matter what it is.
Being an addict at something. Yeah.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: I don't even think it comes down to addiction. I still think the gambling is treated slightly differently and viewed with a degree of suspicion in a way that alcohol is not.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's probably fair. So I thought I enjoyed the Skybat advert a few years ago where it's like, you know, you know, when the fun stops, stop and like. Oh, you know, this, like, you know, this little bit people put at the end of their adverts. We want to make our advert this, you know, this should be the main bit. And that was quite clever because the dinghy. But anyway, I think that's about time, isn't it? We've, We've been droning on. I mean, we had a. We had a.
An unfiltered, relatively solid podcast and then you've spent the last quarter of an hour talking about non alcoholic beers, about normalization.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: I think it's actually quite an interesting parallel.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: Yeah. But it's also just a bit, A bit deep and intellectual for our podcast.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: All right, so what are we gonna talk about on a very superficial and chaotic level about next week?
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I, I quite enjoy the fact that there's just some, you know, interesting, controversial news that we could just, you know, talk about and give our view that other people perhaps wouldn't want to, who maybe care more about their jobs or listenership.
So we can just ad lib it a bit more. But let's put in country generator. Yeah, well, I gave you there. I gave you. Well, okay. Do you want some more?
[00:32:10] Speaker A: No, I wanted, I want to do the Random Country Generator. Save the data for next week.
Save the data.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Netherlands. It's fine.
So what have we got?
So the KSA think that channelization has gone down to onshore, down to 49% from 51% in the last quarter of 2024. Ours is slightly higher. We think it's down from. From 56 to 54, but either way it is a big offshore number that's padded time. Random country generator.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Yes. What are we talking about?
[00:32:46] Speaker B: Well, first one that comes up is Madagascar, which I don't really have much data on, but I would just like to shout out. Hell of a film. Do you not agree?
[00:32:53] Speaker A: I can't say I've seen it. You've.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: You need to get your kid onto this stuff.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: She's too young for this.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: Pretty young. And I like scary lions.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Okay, this is every child.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Mauritius. I think we've done Mauritius before, haven't we?
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah, we have.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: I wish we can get a waiter. I mean, I've never heard of this one. Nauru. In Oceania.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: I mean, that's a very small country.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Population 10.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's look for a slightly bigger market.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: Uganda. Have you done the Uganda?
[00:33:20] Speaker A: I don't think we have. We could talk about Uganda.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Capital?
[00:33:24] Speaker A: Kampala.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: Good knowledge. Population?
[00:33:27] Speaker A: I'm always terrible at this. 16 million, 45.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: 46. Currency.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: Is it shillings? Like Kenya.
[00:33:34] Speaker B: Uganda. Shilling. Yeah.
National flower?
[00:33:39] Speaker A: Begonia.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: The Uganda flame tree, which I'm currently looking up. The galactic tree. It is a flower, but that's pretty cool. Oh, no, there's a tree. Yeah. Kind of is a tree as well. Definitely a tree.
[00:33:52] Speaker A: Very impressive. I like that.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it's nice. And then the national dish, which I've.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: Had to look up a ma.
I don't want to pronounce it wrong. Makoti. Matoke.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: How the hell would you know that? Unless you are suddenly googling stuff.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: It's a kind of. It's like mashed up beans.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: And now you're just getting it. No, it's not actually.
They're kind of bananas. But they do look like. When it says mashed up, it does look a bit. Yeah, like toque and green peas is something. But yeah, they mash it up. Staple food crop in Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania and other Great Lakes countries.
Hats off. You knew that.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: You didn't know what was. What was it? You didn't know. We were talking about the dessert.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: Dessert? Oh, a banoffee pie.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: So you know about a type of banana that's a staple food crop in Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania. But you don't know. But off you buy.
[00:34:52] Speaker A: Hey, I watched a. It was. It was on one of Anthony Berdine's programs. I think it was actually Kenya or Tanzania he was in, but he mentioned that it was also the national dish of Uganda.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: Okay, A plane. Right. So Uganda. And then I suppose we better do a country as well, shouldn't we? Company.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Company.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
I tell you, I. I met two more people. Two more people told me to listen to the podcast. I think you need to get some. Work out how to get listenership numbers. I don't think we're as crap as, you know, as we think.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: Well, we do have listenership numbers and then we.
And we don't release them because we don't want people to know how much of an audience we have. I think we should just make it a thing and whenever we bring up an industry figure we just chuck in that they're a podcast listener and we make it a self fulfilling prophecy.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: Yeah, but I think we don't. Isn't there something like. I mean obviously the next step is to get sponsors because no one's given me any free shit and when I'm out. So merchandising sponsors. But we're going to have to give some listenership data on that. That's going to have to be.
[00:35:56] Speaker A: Well, we've got to have.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: It's going to have to have some element of truth on it. Right. Operator. Supply. We should probably go on to operator given suppliers. We've kind of signed off a bit.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: So we do. Operator.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: Yeah. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1 to 6, 5, 4, 1 to 12, 11, 11. That's going to work, is it? Sportech kind of doesn't exist anymore.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: October came off the aim.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's go for instead of that 4 and 10 topical opap. Interesting. Yeah, let's do that. Excellent. So we're going to talk about Uganda and OPAP next week and then by.
[00:36:34] Speaker B: The time it comes out the week after then people be like, oh great, someone's talking about the all in OPAP acquisition four weeks after it happened. Topical.
[00:36:41] Speaker A: We picked it at random. And we'll talk more about the OPAP business and we'll chuck in a bit about the Alban stuff. But everyone, it's been an interesting one this week so we hope you've enjoyed listening listening to it and we hope that we've not offended anyone. This is a thank you everyone for listening to episode 22 of Right to the Source. So we very much enjoyed the discussion this week and if we make it to next week we'll be talking about Uganda and opap. So we'll see you then.
