Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Right to the Source. We are on episode 20. My name is Robin Harrison. I'm here as ever, with the butt head to my Beavis, Mr. Ed Birkin. Ed, how the devil are you today?
[00:00:30] Speaker B: I'm well, thank you. I don't know if I've ever actually seen Beavis and Butthead.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: It's very good.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Bill and Ted. I've seen that.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: You've seen Bill and Ted do some.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: There we go. I've seen Phil and Ted. Yeah.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: That's good. You've seen.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: I'm sure. There's a line I can remember from, like, someone used to quote it when I was at primary school. So can I drag this up from over 30 years ago? No, carry on.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: No, you can. Okay, well, you'll just have to wait to find out what Ed was thinking midway through the episode. I wouldn't bet against him suddenly kind of shouting out what he actually thought it was.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Something like. Something like. What's that? Oh, it's a present. But you're not my girlfriend. Doesn't mean I can't buy her a present. It does. What is it? It's a gun rack. A gun rack? A gun rack. I don't even own a gun, let alone many guns to necessitate an entire rack. What would I use with a gun rack? I think it was something like that.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: I mean, the start of this episode's gone terribly. Let's improve it with some. Well, let's give a roundup of the sporting sports of the week.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Oh, yeah? Yeah.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Let's find out. A question for you. Okay, so Sheffield Wednesday won three points on the board.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Excellent.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Sheffield United lost again.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: No. Oh, no.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Zero points because of the mighty Charlton. Shout out to our Steve Sidwell look alike fan. Charlton fan, who very happy about it. Who is actually one of the only people I know who listens every single week. Although I think he just fast forwards to search for quote himself when you bring him up.
Anyway, so Sheffield Wednesday, 1 nil up against a terrible Portsmouth team. I say that their manager said, like, it's the worst you've ever played. Anyway, then this through ball came, second half, three ball goes through, played down the pitch and the defender was massive favorite to get there and pulled up with a. Did his hamstring and pulled up so he couldn't run. So then the striker pretty much had a free ball, you know, through and went on and scored and I just felt a bit not quite right. Now, I know you only stop games with head injuries and stuff and don't get me wrong, I'm glad Wednesday got the first three points and I couldn't. Wouldn't blame anyone for carrying on, but it's my team. I don't know, I just felt as though it was.
It was on the cusp of unsportsmanlike. But then, you know, where do you draw the line kind of thing, if anyone. Just because also, you have players who just fake it. Quite frankly, you cannot trust footballers. This guy didn't.
But at what point do you kind of go, well, he wasn't going to win the race, so he pretends that he's hurt a bit or if he's just fallen out, you know, So I get why they carry. Carried on, but it just still felt a little.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, I can. I can get that. I mean, I always remember when Dicano, I think it was against Everton, like the keeper went down injured and he just kicked the ball out of play.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, but back in the day, people didn't fake injuries as much.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: No, that's true.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: People complain about the rule that if you get injured, if. If someone. If you get the physio on, you then have to go off for a few seconds and it, you know, disadvantages, you know, the team who's some kind of injury, if they're defending a free kick or something, I'm like, well, you need to. I'd keep them off for longer because quite frankly, you know, it's just you can't trust players not to cheat and waste time by doing that. So you have to disadvantage their own real injury, then so be it. But.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Well, that's why they call them. They've got a way to gamesmanship. It's a way of sort of excusing it, isn't it?
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Calling it gamesmanship or. He's being clever there. No, he's not. He's cheating. Like they're just. Some of them are scummy anyway, let's not go on to that. But yeah, so the Jags won. The Jags won, and the Oilers started their preseason with two wins and. And a loss. So, yeah, we're doing all right.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. The. The Birkin. The Birkin sports stable, is not it? Not. Not at its lowest step. That's. That's nice. That's nice.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Do you want a story of the week?
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, my story of the week was going to be that I'm not going to watch Sheffield Wednesday against qpr, but instead gonna play golf for the first time in a year and watch the Ryder cup where I really Hope we stuff those money grabbing Americans who are deciding that should be the story of the week. We, we want to get paid to star in the Ryder Cup. Like, no, the Europeans aren't getting paid. Like, it's just, it's just. And they're charging $750 a ticket to go and watch it. It's just the players are going. So the players argument is, yeah, but the Ryder cup makes all this money because they're charging so much. You know, we should get some of it. Like, no, no.
Anyway, so your story of the week.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: Yes, we're about four or five minutes in and you've insulted all footballers and American golfers. It's a good start.
So I've actually got two for you. So the first one, a new freelance writer, a guy called Martin Burke, he's come on board and he's started with a piece digging into, you know, the motivations behind tax increases in Europe. So that's obviously something that we've talked about quite a lot in the podcast. It's interesting to get a few different industry perspectives on that. So definitely recommend reading that. And second, just because I think the new use is very interesting. Wanted to bring up YOLO Group.
So YOLO Group, a big crypto operator, you know, incredible business, really kind of meteoric rise. They are pivoting from gray markets to a regulated offering tuning licenses in the uae. I think they also mentioned Finland is another one where they expect to grow. And as part of this, they are shutting down Sportsbet IO and Betcasino IO, which were there to kind of like global operations. So they are shutting that down for this full regulated market pivot. And I mean, that's, it's one of these things. I remember I saw the announcement and you kind of start skimming it and then you suddenly think, holy shit, this is actually a huge deal. That is a real kind of line in the sand for a crypto operator to draw.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Well, it's also quite str to do because I don't know why they wouldn't just do what, how do we put this out? Being sued, others allegedly would do, where you just hive them off into a arm's length other entity and then just keep making loads of money and then just have your own, you know, go, oh, it's nothing to do with those. Just, you know, if you go through 17 different shell companies, you may find the same beneficial owner. So actually just shutting it down.
Yeah, I mean, they make, they make a lot of money.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: Oh no, they make. Both those brands are incredibly successful. But it's interesting as well the fact they're going into the UAE because GCGRA has been very vocal about the fact that it wants to create this kind of innovation hub within the regulated environment. So they want to look at kind of new products and new kind of like whether it's mechanics, whether it's forms of delivery and find a way to do that responsibly and safely but also sustainably in a regulated environment. And someone like YOLO Group obviously with the capabilities that it has.
Because don't forget, on top of these B2C operations, it's got a B2B operation and then it's got YOLO Ventures where it's been putting money into a lot of companies. Obviously one of the businesses I remember I went to their kind of investment investor showcase in Tallinn a few years ago was essentially they were building out a bank. You know, it's really kind of big ambitious project. So it's. The fact that it is essentially kind of pivoting in this way is really quite, is quite remarkable. And also I think, I think it shows a lot of leadership. I think that's one of the things I'm really impressed about it.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Go on, expand on that.
[00:08:04] Speaker A: Well, I think of having built up a business in a largely gray environment to then disavow that.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Oh, I couldn't. Well, I'm not saying I couldn't disagree more, but I think that is just being so nice. I haven't read the article you guys have written. I'm sure it's all lovey dovey.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: I don't think that is my look, I don't think that is naive and I will tell you why.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: I will do a counter argument. I'm not saying this is my view, but let's do a counter argument.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: You have companies that for a long time have been operating, mainly operating in regulated environments. These guys have been operating, quote unquote, a slash illegally to make a shit ton of money. That now puts them in a very beneficial situation to compete with people in regulated environments because they've got a load of money they made illegally, freely, whatever, we're not used, allegedly illegally, whatever you want to call it, to not be sued. So if you're, if you're in, let's say, I don't know, Denmark, Sweden, like Swing, where your profit margins have been hammered and you're making very little money. And in the past three or four years all these gray market, want to call them operators have been crypto things have just taken huge amounts of money out of the market without any tax.
Because that's why we've seen the channelization go down with the rise of these. They suddenly go oh we'll get a license, we've got a customer base, we've just made a load of money. And now I've got a war chest to compete against. You guys who don't have that same war chest because you haven't been making much money because you've been operating legally. That's not leadership cheating effectively.
That's one argument I guess literally how.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: Every phase of the industry develops. You think about online coming up. Online was essentially gray if not black and then the companies pivoted to regulated markets.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: Yeah, when they, when they, it was gray and then when they regulate. So if you, let's say you do some pure, pure one, you know, they operate from multi world wherever and then let's say now Finland, Finland regulates. So then they go okay, we'll get Finnish market or France regulates, we'll get a French license and do that. That's very different to continuing to operate in a market that has a set. This is Denmark. This is the only legal gambling is with a Danish license. I don't care if you're based in Kurosal Jabot or whatever. If you continue to operate in that market without a license then I think you're getting an unfair advantage against the licensed people and use the money you've made to then fight against them.
I don't think that not yellow but I think that there's an argument that as much as regulators want to get as many people onshore as possible to try and have the onshore transation, you know, whether they, if you've been blatantly disregarding the rules whether you should be allowed to get licensed.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Well there's obviously going to be suitability tests but this is literally what happens. Land based operators said this about the online operators back in the day.
The new entrants into US sports betting said this about legacy DFS operators.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: This is how they didn't do anything wrong with dfs. Well I suppose it goes back into sweepstakes. That's the whole thing we've covered before.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: It's not.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I suppose the flip argument is like let's say something in Peru or Chile. Is it like Chile will argue that it is black and white illegal now there's no licensing framework but it's just should be polished your lane so I know you can get down. But I'm saying there is an argument. I'm not saying I'm going down that one. But as a counterarm to you saying it's, it's. It's leadership and admirable, I'm like, you could argue it's actually the complete opposite way around. It's just cheating. So it's probably, probably somewhere in the middle. But I wouldn't say fair play to them. They're turning off a lot of free money, quite frankly. But, you know, should they have got that in the first place? You know, you could say people who have been admirable and did that 10 years ago, they're like, well, hang on, you're praising them because they just decided to do it later.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: No, I think in the current context, one of what I've definitely been seeing recently, and a lot of other people have commented on this as well, is the gray slash black operators are becoming a lot more visible and almost, let's face it, you know, gleeful, how clever they've been to find these new ways to make all this money.
And essentially, it's the old industry cycle going again. These companies will rise up, there'll be a regulatory crackdown. They will have to pivot. YOLO hasn't waited for that inflection point where there's a crackdown. It's moved ahead of that. So two things out of that. First of all, you could say it's altruistic. Second of all, you could say it's farsighted. I'd say it's probably more farsighted, which suggests there's some other indication or awareness that these crackdowns will happen. If you think about the poker sites in the us, there was what? I won't name them. I don't know why I won't name them, but whatever. A one of them, you felt that when the indictments were unsealed, it was a case of saying, well, we knew this day would come. What do we need to do to make this right? Whereas the other one just went into chaos and collapsed.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: I mean, everyone knows that PokerStars are the first one of Full Tilt's the second. Yeah, pokestars just then effectively bought Full Tilt just to appease a doj. So people got their money back and just got them to sign off at party gaming a long time ago is no longer there. So I could say this. Nothing to do with the current management or their view. One person's view that was probably widely held who said their biggest mistake was leaving the US in 2006 because they just carried on and made all the money. And suddenly they just became this pretty small fish from Having been a market leader because they adhered to the regulations. Now you could argue in the US is different because poke has never been proven to be illegal and they actually just got done through miscoding of transactions and blah, blah, blah. However, I mean, it just goes to show as much as we're both proponents of onshore market and channelization, et cetera, more money is to be made by being an illegal operator. And if you were setting up a website now, why would you get licensed in many places? Yeah, that's not an IGB thing. It's not an H2 thing. Like.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: No, that is just looking at the state of the market and the conditions under which the licensees are expected to regulate.
[00:13:55] Speaker B: I mean stake, they announced last year 4.7 billion.
I mean, how much of that was regulated? Now they're now starting to get regulated, et cetera. But it's, you know, it's a lot easier to start, you know, if you're a startup trying to raise some money and go into a regulator market.
It's tough.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: If you're, if you're already making $4.7 billion of GGR, you know, that's the number they announced themselves, is it? Of course they've got an advantage and they've got an advantage because they're getting it from markets that they're not regulated in. But you know what we'll call it? We will go, well done you guys. This is so, this is so altruistic of you and you're showing great leadership in the industry. You know, well done.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Such cynicism, right?
[00:14:35] Speaker B: I have a call in 20 minutes because you were late because you had a call. Why don't we skip onto the ones that we're doing and talking about B2C B2B operators. Why don't we go with Golden Matrix first rather than Singapore?
[00:14:49] Speaker A: I want to talk about Singapore first.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Well, you're in charge. Let's talk about Singapore.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Yeah, let's talk about Singapore because. Especially the land based market because I think that's a really interesting point of discussion because essentially it's a tale of two properties. You've got Marina Bay Sands operated by a Las Vegas sands. And you have Resorts World Sentosa operated by Genting Singapore, a subsidiary of Genting Group. One of them is performing very well, has hit 500 million visitors since opening and has had its license extended for the full length of the term. The other one is struggling, quite frankly. For the first time ever, a property didn't get the full three year license. It was only given two because of weak performance in the wake of COVID So I think it was. I can't remember the exact wording, but I think in the CRA casino regulatory authorities assessment, it was in need of great improvement. Both are investing. There's development work going on at Marina Bay. Sands Resorts World. Sentosa is building a theme park. It's going to have something called Minion World Minions.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: You look a bit like a Minion.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: I don't look like a Met. What the.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: Yes, you do.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: How do I look like a minion.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: If a minion had a beard and glasses.
It's like a little shiny head.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: You're like a little mint. Yeah, I mean that's maybe doing a disservice to Minions, but yeah, I think.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: He'S doing a disservice to me.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: Oh, I can see you look like a Minion. I'll find some names of the Minions for the next episode.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, let's. Let's put this into context then. The size of market. So yeah, so Singapore, you've got a bit of betting monopoly with Singapore pools who also have the lottery. And then you've got gaming. So you've got these two integrated resources and then you have some slots in gaming clubs, more locals. So gaming market so for two integrated resorts was 5.7 billion Singapore dollars, 4 billion US dollars in 2024, which was up 24% on the pre Covid level. Now that is impressive growth and this year we expected to get 6.4 billion. So just under $5 billion. So you've got two properties making 5 billion USD of gaming revenue between them. I mean that's not shabby. But as you said, if you look at in 2024, Genting accounted for 30, 30% of gaming revenues, but it was 36% in 2019. So this 24% market growth, that's been driven purely by Sands. So sands is up 34% to 4 billion Singapore dollars. And over the same period, Genting's up 5% to 1.7 billion. So it really has just been completely one sided in terms of what's happened since COVID Hence what you're talking about with the licensing. But they are both, you say they're both expanding. So Genting has five hotels over 1,600 rooms and got provisional profession built another 700 on top of that. Like that is huge growth they're putting in.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: Well, it's fast. They're also building an aquarium. I think they've got a water park and Minion World. And I'm still amazed that you know what minions are?
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah, they're the little, little funny, you know, yellow things. One of them's got glasses or they're like goggles, don't they?
[00:18:11] Speaker A: I'm thinking of Munchkins.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: I'm sure I could find a minion that looks just like you. Like, do you see? You don't even know what a minion is.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: No, I was thinking of Munchkins. I was thinking of the, you know, like the, the lollipop geld in the wizard of Oz.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: What? I don't really know what a Munchkin is.
I mean, look. What.
Who's Munchkins? They're often wizard of Oz.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: To be honest, you tend to look too dissimilar to a Munchkin either.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Oh my God.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: This feels like karmic retribution for all the times they said you look like Donnie Wahlberg, isn't it?
[00:18:43] Speaker B: I'd take Donnie Wahlberg all day long, quite frankly. In fact, I'm into season nine of Blue Bloods at the moment. Anyway, we're going off track. So you're like a Munchkin and a minion. Las Vegas sands are smashing it in. Singapore is still a huge market resource. World's not doing as well, but are massively expanding all of their non gaming offering which should, you'd assume, help with the gaming revenue. So we're forecasting the markets continue to grow.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Well, and then what about the Singapore pools? Because that's essentially a de facto sports betting monopoly. Is that fair to say or betting?
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah, so.
So their lottery is 2.7 billion Singapore dollars. So whatever that is, US$2 billion. So decent size and their monopoly on betting is about 460 million Singapore dollars. And that's predominantly football. Now what happened last year they ceased horse racing operations in Singapore. So the final race was held on the 5th of October and they're redeveloping that because I think land value is just worth a lot more than that. Now it's my understanding they are continuing to offer horse race betting. Just not tracked in Singapore. So the scale of that will diminish. So next year we have football at over 80% of the market and there's a very little bit on Motorsports, so probably F1 because they have the F1 Grand Prix, but it's pretty much, as you say, a football betting market. Now I know they're looking. Well, I'm not. I don't know they're looking at. But I assume because I know that other monopolies in that area are looking at trying to expand the sports just like a couple of extra like basketball and things like that, whether that would help. But at the end of the day there is just going to be a huge illegal offering that is very difficult to compete against.
Maybe, maybe the owners of some of these businesses will show market leadership and be very altruistic and decide to come onshore at some point and close down their illegal offering and we should tell them how amazing they are.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: I'm not telling them how amazing they are. I'm just saying I think it does show some leadership.
But you mentioned a big illegal market there. I mean what's the onshore offshore split for Singapore?
[00:20:41] Speaker B: It's difficult. If we look at kind of the visible kind of gray bit, it's well over kind of two thirds as being offshore. However, problem is, and I'm still, I'm still unsure exactly how to do this analysis to be a really kind of data driven thing. You can track on a lot of it is again just done with cash transaction. So you may be doing the, the actual betting online, but it's all kind of cash.
Yeah. And so when you're looking at web traffic, if it's all of that. Yeah, you can capture some of it, but not anywhere near what the true black and legal market is. You know, kind of take it, take a guess really. So that's, that's the issue with our legal market, Asian numbers is you can track the likes. The likes of us not saying they would be there, but the sportsbet IO or something like that or you know, some of the crypto ones, you know what they're doing.
You know you can't. The big activity with agents and stuff like that is so hard. Okay.
[00:21:41] Speaker A: Gold matrix.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: So. Yes.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: So you've got it. Yeah. Well you've got it down as a supplier. Last year they acquired Meridian Bed. So that's a 300 million deal that takes them into B2C operations. So you need to update your systems to reflect this. Do you have a category for hybrid businesses?
[00:22:03] Speaker B: We don't.
And so we just can decide which is their main part of their business. And to be honest, since they acquired Meridian Vet, I will acknowledge that now that 90% of their revenues comes from B2C they probably should be moved across to the operator category.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: I'm not saying we're going to do that, I'm just saying they should do.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Okay, that's good. It's just, it's good you acknowledge it. But as long as there isn't. Yeah. No follow ups in that.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: So it's nice that people are honest I think, you know.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So Meridian Bet is an interesting one because it's one of these businesses like talking to some of the management last year you don't really realize the scale of it. Like it's active in Peru, it's active in Eastern Europe, it's active in Africa.
But what is interesting about that is it's another Eastern European business that started out in you know, brick and mortar kind of retail betting kiosk shops and is now expanding online. Maybe not to the same scale as a super bet or someone like that but it is more evidence of these companies using their in person platform or foundation to build an online business that.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: And just developing a good scalable business in a market where some of the traditional guys just weren't that interested. Like you know, when I was back in the city, look at you know the sporting bets and lab books at the time and Antain and you know, blah blah blah. William Hill 888 and none of them are talking about launching in Serbia. No there's a market, it's a decent market. You then can market leadership and, and expand and as you say, you know they're making you know, good amounts of revenues. To put into context, when they got bought at the beginning of Q2 24 their revenue went from 10 million, sorry Golden Matrix's revenue went from $10 million in Q2 23 to 40 million in Q2 24 and it's like 11 million in Q1 so effectively 30 million a quarter. So 120 basically 120 million plus of revenue is, is now coming from you know, Meridian Bet. So the, it's a good business to say they've they got licensed last year in South Africa, they've got one this year in Nigeria.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: I think they're also licensed in Peru.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So that they look at last time. What's interesting is they didn't before the deal they used to disclose a, a split of revenues. The price acquisition Gordon matrix was 39 Asia, 59% UK and 2% from LATAM. Even with the presentation of the acquisition there is zero geographical analysis done. So yeah we think a lot of it is in, in these markets and they've got license 15 license. Yeah they've got a decent amount of licenses.
It doesn't make me a little skeptical when they don't give any of their of course geographical distribution.
So that yeah Meridian Bet is the. I say they're looking to scale say Latam in Africa I think are things that they're looking at and they've got the Eastern Europe as their traditional powerhouse. So I mean we've talked about before, if you look at likes of Superbetter and stuff, you know, there are a number of these Eastern European businesses that come from very small, gone online and you know, are in a strong position to kind of take on the traditional big operators.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: As I said, interesting one, that golden what Matrix Boss. It. Well, you know, I wouldn't have had Golden Matrix down as a natural buyer, to be honest.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: No. But these, these combinations occasionally work. I'm not saying it's not going to. I think it's, it is interesting the nature of that business because obviously that Golden Matrix business think it was a platform. I think they had maybe an aggregator.
There's some sort of like prize draw stuff which you always worry about toes align with, you know, the sweepstakes products we're seeing. I'm always a bit wary of those in terms of, you know, how we can present them in our coverage and indeed in this podcast.
But maybe that's part of, that's part of the reason behind this. I mean like just the example that jumps to mind here is someone like Amaya, they bought a load of. I think the good way to put this would be past their peak supply side businesses. So I'm thinking like cryptologic people like that, they acquired these businesses, they built up operations, revenue and then they used that to make a pivot. In their case, it was obviously acquiring Pokestars. So it could be a similar approach.
[00:26:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. Let's look at what we're doing next week because.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Well, no, we are doing nothing next week.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Because we will hold next week's episode so we can turn 20.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Okay. In that case, are we going to, are we going to do something for G2E as in are we going to do a country and a thing or are we just going to ad lib? Let's add a little bit.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Let's talk about. No, let's talk about Nevada. We'll talk about the Nevada market.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: All right, let's do that.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Done.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Nice and easy. Okay. Well, on that note, we will let you go. It has been an absolute pleasure as ever to speak to Ms. Red Birkin. I'm not sure where I'm going with this outro, but I'm just going to persevere. This has been episode 20 of Right to the Source. No episode next week because we'll hold off for Vegas and our coming of age. Our coming of age.
What a terrifying thought. Come a long way from a studio in Brazil. Well, I think we peaked in our first episode.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: And then I was gonna say, looking at my office in your dining room, I think that the studio in Brazil was probably the peak. Episode one. And then 21 will be on the show floor at G2E.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Yes, we will. All right, thanks, everyone, for listening, and we'll see you in the next one.
