Episode Transcript
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Right to the Source podcast. My name is Robin Harrison and I'm here for episode 10 with Mr. Ed Birkin. Ed, we're in double figures. How are you doing?
[00:00:27] Speaker B: I'm fantastic, Robin, and it's so great to be back with you. It just feels excellent. It feels though, because you did one a day early last week and I've had, you know, those eight days apart, it just. Just feels too long.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Eight days apart.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Well, actually, no, I did see you at IGB Live, didn't I?
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we were, we were at the event together in lockstep for, however, for three days, essentially.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Maybe it's more PTSD than missing you then.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Stockholm syndrome.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just a weird feeling I'm getting. So, anyway, yeah, on the podcast.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Yes. And that's a very interesting top you're wearing there. Tell us more.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Well, thank you very much. I mean, I was. Whether I was proud to be picked or more tricked into playing for the IGB team at the Latam Media sponsored football event on the Friday, which was. It was fantastic. The downside was it was just after the IGB affiliate awards, so having done a bam finish to get up at half seven to play football or. Wasn't ideal. But look, the awards was. Was a great event and they did 90s theme, so there's a bit of a Blur, Oasis and kind of Battle of the Bands.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: That feels very timely.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Yeah, well, Oasis now coming, coming back and doing their shows, so. And actually for those, those of you keen, keen listeners to our podcast, the theme tune we have was actually recorded by a friend of mine who's a massive Oasis fan, who said that he couldn't really tell me how the show was because he spent most of the time trying not to cry. He was that emotional. Personally, I turn down tickets for free because I think you'll probably be a bit shit. Not that I don't like Oasis, just, you know, all this nostalgia stuff does always work. And you know what the best bit about the bastard bands that I found? The Blur. Oasis was good when the Spice Girls came on at the end. Now that is true. 90s.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Oh yes, the Spice Girls were iconic. The Spice Girls were brilliant. And so I do have a slightly interesting Oasis story. When I was in France, I was at Roc Conseine, which is a big music festival near Paris, and that was meant to be headlined by Oasis, but that was when they had a big barney backstage and broke up.
And I think, as I recall, Book Party replaced them. Who both of the Gallaghers had said Were terrible and I think like band off University Challenge. So they were very delighted to be replacing them.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: I'm not block party, but anyway, the IGB Affiliate Awards, great event.
You know, obviously some of the people there were upset they didn't win and you know, some of the winners are maybe more justified than others, but everyone's got a different view on that. And the next day we turned up to this, this football. So half time on the sidelines, half time. I have to come on because one of your senior reporters had to make a quick exit off the pitch. I think maybe overindulged at the affiliate awards the night before. So I come on up front. Now just picture the scene, okay? Just outside the box, the ball comes, he faints left, faints right. The defender is absolutely bamboozled. Hits this shot flying for the bottom corner. The match is finally poised at one. All about to go in. The crowd's about to celebrate it. Then hits my legs as I'm standing up front and goes out for a goal kick. We lose the match 4 1. I actually contributed a negative goal to the team and at that point I realized why. I hadn't played up front since I was 11 years old. And when I moved back into defense, my more natural position, you know, got a bit of a shout out for Gary Neville, number two. Yeah, we won the second game but unfortunately at that point I went out on goal difference because of my negative contribution in the first game. But it was, you know, it was a good event, well organized by Lastam Media Group. You know, I think Alton are the winners so shout out to them. Dan Alton are probably need to fact check that. I'm pretty sure that's what they said at that point I'd already left and gone home and being the team guy that I am anyway, left and disgust, that's enough.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Stormed out the stadium.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: I must admit there weren't many people on my team doing Heineken as other beers are available as a, you know, pre match refreshment.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: But I'm not sure about, yeah, I'm not sure about the isotonic properties of Heineken. Now there is a, there is a non alcoholic German beer called Erdinger which for a while was marketing itself as an isotonic drink. You could have, you could have gone for that. A nice kind of a vice beer.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: I could have done. But one, I don't like vice beer and two, it probably wouldn't have gone as well with the chicken wings that I was using for pretty much nutrition.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: No oranges, no halftime oranges Just half time Wings.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Not there. Not there. But anyway, about some stuff, what's happened. So forget about IGB Live. We talked about that for two weeks. It's gone now. Other shows are available. You're probably going to be launching ICE in the next couple of weeks because. Because that's what you seem to spend most of your life.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Clarion doing well in an events company. We tend to do digital content.
We create a lot of digital. We create a lot of excellent digital content is widely read by the industry and let's face it, fuels this podcast because obviously one of the things that we hastily discussed about three minutes before we hit record was what we're going to talk about. And obviously looking at the website, tracking the market, I should say, rather than just hastily looking at the website, the Netherlands jumps front of mind, obviously. I think we've touched on it in the past, the situation where you essentially have a regulator that feels that they're quite constructive, wants to work with the industry, an industry that is excited to take advantage of the opportunity.
And then crashing into that, you have politicians and political pressure which, let's face it, is largely derailing the market. So a few interesting things over the past week, obviously from the 1st of July it Bannon sponsorship came into force. So any kind of gambling branding is going to be kind of ripped off the shirts of the football teams, with the usual exceptions. So Euro Jackpot run by the Dutch National Lottery, that seems to be immune from this. And, you know, there's parallels with something like the UK newspaper, the Guardian said that it will no longer take kind of gambling advertising, aside from lotteries. Now, lotteries are obviously a force for public good. They are something that is going to raise money. But some of the products, let's be honest, are not that far away from the type of gambling products that people are very keen to ban. So I'm thinking in particular scratch cards. Yes. As a physical scratch card, you'd have to buy them in a big stack. I was in Tesco yesterday and someone was doing just that. If you put these products online, it's essentially revealing a series of numbers or symbols using a random number generator. It's not that far away from slots, so I'm always a bit uncomfortable with that. Lottery carve out.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's an interesting point because was it 94, the UK National Lottery? I know it's a big thing, the sociable thing on tv and the lottery is a big market. Data alert. We have been told some people would like some more data points. So Rather than us just talking craps, you know, we have the global lottery market in 2025 worth $160 billion. Of that 25 billion is online. So an online penetration is a lot lower the lottery than others one because it went online later like us, hardly any of it's online. But also just the scale of the land based business. Okay UK it's over 50% so things. But you are right with scratch cards, online scratch cards, you know it is, there's a very thin line between online scratch cards and slots. And so you know, the carve out lottery, especially society lotteries, health lottery is all doing good and raising money for charity, you know, rather than the big nasty corporations of gambling. But at the same time I get your point about if you're advertising, you know you're allowed to effectively advertise what is an RNG online scratch cards slash type of slots with just a different graphic, you know, is that any different to the rest?
[00:08:10] Speaker A: And that's a question view.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: However, what you made me think about with the Netherlands. Someone said to me, you know, it's as if they're trying to, you know, it's as if they regret it, maybe even been you but say it's all intelligent.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good idea.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: They're just trying to, they've realized they don't want legalized gambling and they're trying to outlaw it. And that's just gonna, you know, chuck stuff offshore. I mean our numbers again data, we don't too much in it but 61 of the market was onshore last year. Obviously the massive decline in in deposits and GGR since the new rules come into place last year, we've got at 50 this year. As he talks about the advertising ban sponsorship band, we're looking down to 47% in 2026 and actually going down to 45% onshore. And so we actually just don't see the onshore doing it. Prince Will said, you know, with gambling you can't put the genie back in the bottle. And the reason I want to say that is talking about 90s bands, Genie in a bottle, Christina Aguilera.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Was that the 90s? I mean that was more kind of turn of the millennium.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah, no. Okay. I was probably, I was probably far too old to be listening to that kind of music at that point.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'm interested that you know A who Christina Aguilera is and B what her first number one was.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: I mean I didn't know that was her first number one, but thank you.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: For clarifying I do. I can.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Anyone born in the 80s knows is. Knows the song dirty. Just as they know Hit Me Baby One More Time by Brittany. Both iconic songs at the time.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: But neither of which are related to the Netherlands, so. Netherlands. Yep. Look, they're trying to. It's this fine line we talked about balancing player protection, you know, with keeping people on shore. And quite frankly, that's a job that should be left to regulators who spend, you know, their work day doing this. Other than politicians who don't really, in general understand the market and just have some, you know, ideals that aren't. Are completely detached from reality. So we always have a go at the Netherlands and Germany. Yeah, I mean, probably because they have, you know, regulation.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean, the regulations do need improved. I mean, like what. Another thing that came out at the end of last week as well, you were a scoring own goals and a football pitch.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: I didn't score an own goal. In fact, I saved a lot of goals in defense. But.
Yeah, but I would also like to take this opportunity to say that the commentators. The live stream didn't work brilliantly. The commentators were giving us nicknames because. Because no one had given their actual names. And while I like to think that I was being compared to Gary Neville in the bit the live stream was down. One of your colleagues got referred to as Ed Sheeran, which he was very upset about until I pointed out that actually I would have gone with Ron Weasley. So you should be pretty happy.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Is Ron Weasley Harry Potter?
[00:10:52] Speaker B: Yes. No, he's Harry Potter's friend.
[00:10:54] Speaker A: Right, right. Yeah, yeah. He's a personality from Harry Potter. It's not something that tends to fall within my reading list.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Christina Aguilera's first number one is.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: That is excellent. Yeah. So while you were swatting about football pitch, get. Getting a.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: In the way of other people's problems.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So getting in the way of other people's prowess. So when you were blocking your own team's shots and eating chicken wings. I was obviously working and just helping the team out with some news content. And one of the things that we covered last week on Friday was a report from the CanSpel authoritate the KSA on the impact of deposit limits in the Netherlands. So the way that was reported was it's led to an overall 31% decline in player losses.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: Sounds good.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, if you call it player losses, if you call it ggr, obviously that changes the.
That changes the sheen somewhat.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah. But you know, for politicians, they look at it and go, we've reduced player losses or we've reduced the size of the gambling market. They're happy. That's what they aim to do. What they don't realize is what's happened on the other side. These people have not just stopped gambling.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Well, this is it. Because the other thing that this report did flag was that there is an increase in searches for illegal sites. So it's one of the. It's one of these kind of interesting ones in that there's something which can be dressed up as essentially, say, kind of a benefit to consumer protection. You know, consumers are no longer just, you know, throwing money into regulated sites. However, then immediately you've got a good indication of where that money's going. So all this is moving offshore. And I forgot to ask you earlier, actually, I'm just going to chuck this in now, totally at random for that global lottery market, do you have any kind of breakdown of scratch cards?
[00:12:53] Speaker B: Yes, Robin, I do. And if you give me a global summary here, one sec to look at it because I don't have all the answers completely off the top of my head. Sales and gross win is going to be not. Not massively. Oh, let's go with grace win. So we have percentage instance globally is 33%.
Now online, you know, that may be different.
Some will have more, some be less. So we can't say 33% of instant sales online. We'd have to do some more digging on our data to get that actual figure. Although we do have it.
But, yeah, I mean, a third of it is instance.
Now if we look at, let's say, some different markets. Let's go North America, you're looking at percent instance being 51% this year, whereas you look at Latam and it is only 8%. So it does really differ by market. The US is by far the highest instance, which is slightly surprising, I suppose, given that you have such a big Powerball and mega Millions. But yeah, instances are pretty big there. But then the U.S. you know, this online is the lottery penetration online. It's only a handful of states actually allow online lottery.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: It is. It is pretty small.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Now let's move on to a different market and one where I don't think we've actually talked about it before. So New Zealand, the one next to Australia where they made Lord of the Rings, Flight of the Concords, and Chris Wood, Nottingham Forest legend. Chris Wood.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: Okay, they.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: I don't think that's that niche. He's a Premier League footballer.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: England cricket coach. Anyway, let's not go into everything. Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Joe Nilomo, Dan Carter. I mean, we could. Richie McCall. We could get into a bit of a rabbit hole with this.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: We need to stop talking. In fact, we need.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: The singer.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: I met three listeners to our podcast. Okay.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: When I was in igb. Okay.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: They, they admitted to listening to it.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: And they said they enjoyed it. So actually, in case they're listening, one Javier shout out, also well played at the football. Fantastic.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: Yeah, Javier, great guy.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: There's another one who will remain nameless who said, please don't ever mention my name on the podcast after you mentioned Uriah Rennie. He passed away two days later.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: So we shout out to them.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: We do need to perhaps think about General Omu, you know what, what a player. Unfortunately, so he's passed away, so we can't do that. But we perhaps need to kind of keep track of people when name dropping and what happens. But I'd also like to give a shout out to Rosie Brewster in case she's, she's hearing this. Who, who claims she listens to our podcast. And when I asked her something we talked about in the last three episodes, she said after a long pause, Brazil. Which is a good guess, but wrong. So. So we will see if she mentions this.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's also worth shouting out a Rosie for the IGB executive lounge at the show.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: That was. Well, that was, that was.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, obviously, you know, I work for Clarion, I work with Rosie, but, you know, so, so an element of bias here. But it is, it is a fantastic kind of addition to the shows. And the thing with the networking, the way it just brings people together, networking.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: Was, was, was very good. I'm a big fan of RGB Exec.
So I mean, it helps that I don't necessarily get charged as your principal data partner to be part of it, but even if I were before that, I would have happily paid because you have some great networking, great events, great food. But I still don't believe she listens to the podcast. So this is all going to be thanks and never gets back to her. But speaking about Brazil, we'll quickly touch on it before we go back to New Zealand as he talks about. I mentioned Brazil. So we'll keep it quick.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: All right. All right. Well, yeah, let's talk about Brazil.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: The latest twist, by the time you have put this on the site, probably last week at the Senate were discussing the casino bill, which a lot of people were expecting to get well thought had a good chance of passing and now they've added on bingos and yoga de biso. And the five second thing is it doesn't have the votes and it's probably not happening for a while. Is that.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: No, yeah, I mean that's.
Yeah, it was honestly throughout this process, obviously, you know, I've been hopeful of it happening, but I have to admit it felt very split as to whether it would actually happen. You know, a lot of people were saying similar to what US State said post sports betting regulation, they wanted to see how the new product bedded in. But I think also considering the, you know, the efforts to raise the tax and then limit advertising, I think it just shows. It's basically just illustrating a trend that I think is continuing. People are, well, say people are less likely to regulate new forms of gambling than they are to try and get more out of the existing forms. You know, in my mind, I mean like where I think these things are potentially going and where I could imagine that the industry kind of shifts its efforts with this longer tail between, you know, new product regulation, people might look towards omnibus bills. I mean, obviously the Brazilian, a bill which included land based casino, jogo, Dubai, show, racing, bingo, all these products, that was essentially an omnibus bill, but just for land based. Now you've taken out the immediate, you know, kind of like pressure, which is the online part that's already been done separately where I mean, it'd be interesting if you have some figures on this just to give people an idea of the trajectory. But if you look at the US my mind does jump back to Pennsylvania. Obviously they work through this omnibus bill which, you know, covered casino, covered, I think slots in the airport, covered online, covered sports betting, covered a lot of products in one fell swoop. Now obviously these kind of bills are going to take longer to put together. There's a lot of different potentially competing interests. It might be a years long process, but that then is justified by a massive leap forward because it feels like whatever happens is going to be a years long process anyway. So it feels like, you know, kind of like omnibus legislation covering multiple channels would actually be a solution to this rather than going piecemeal.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I think for each of them it took, I mean depending on when you count it as starting, it took 10 years, 15 years, some people say eight years, however long depending on the starting point for them to pass. Online sports night gaming in Brazil. Yeah, and they got it launched. You know, if casino takes another five years, it doesn't happen.
You know, if you'd put it as an omnibus bill Would anything have happened? Would it be in the same situation as with it unregulated, which some people may prefer. So I think for each market it's different. Like adding yogurt to bishop. Is that. Is that what stops, you know, the casino bill? Is it adding bingo? Is it none of that, you know, should they have done it separately? They've kind of gone for a land based omnibus and maybe that's what's held it back. I wasn't listening to the Senate thing. We probably should do more with guests. We should get your latam liaison on and she can tell us exactly why she thinks the bill hasn't got the votes and whether an omnibus thing is part of the reason, whether piecemeal will be better or not.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Yeah, that could be an interesting one. But now back to New Zealand.
Other famous New Zealand people include mention of briefly the singer Lord or Lordy. I'm not sure you pronounce it.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: I mean I always think that if you don't know how to pronounce their name, it's probably an indication they're not 100% famous.
[00:20:21] Speaker A: I know, I think she is quite famous. She was playing at Glastonbury. I think she's for a different generation. Ryan Nelson New Zealand Centre back kind.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Of feel and normally I'm happy to talk as much shit as possible but I do have a call in eight minutes. So should we talk about New Zealand gambling market?
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Yeah, we should. So obviously there's been the casino legislation now filed 15 licenses, opens up the online market but obviously with the carve out for sports betting which is a monopoly under tab and entain now with this market, I mean I think based on H2 figures it's something like only 10% is, you know, kind of like currently onshore. I mean obviously because there is no legislation for most of these products. But I was keen to get a sense from you about what that market could potentially do.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Well, actually this is something that, as you probably saw my eyes go off the screen, we have looked at and I have been looking at that if we were to go for a completely open market with betting and gaming, which isn't going to happen, launching mid 26, let's say 20, 30 figures because that's what it goes out to, we would have the total onshore betting and gaming market at and a random guess here that this is in euros 3.6 billion euros onshore, 900 million offshore, 79, 80 onshore channelization. Now if we go for a monopoly market, so monopoly betting but with 15 licenses for gaming, which is what they're going for. We get an onshore market at 1.5 billion and offshore at 2 billion. So three and a half billion in total or only 43% onshore. Now again, going back to what, the Netherlands, you know, you could go, well hang on, that's a good thing. We've got people spending one and a half billion, not three and a half billion, you know, onshore. That's a good thing. And yes, the overall market we have is smaller at three and a half versus four and a half. But we have the illegal market and more than double, doubling, double the size of what it would be with onshore. So you know, is it better to have a smaller onshore market? But half of that is actually, you know, you save 2 billion, let's say on the offshore, that's lower player losses, but it's actually 1 billion less. And the billion that's being spent offshore is with no player protection. And it's balancing the market growth and player protection. And I don't know anyone apart from maybe Tab and their partner who could possibly, and even I think they struggle to do it straight face could possibly argue that having a monopoly on betting is going to be positive for player protection.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: It is tricky. But at the same time, could the casino legislation almost incentivize these companies? Because as part of the monopoly being, you know, kind of like enshrined in law, these companies have been asked to pull back from the market. And I think a number. Well, because obviously you then have the benefit of the casino legislation and with that enforcement action it feels like the, you know, like the play is people push for, push these people out of sports. But then by dangling the carrot of, you know, kind of online casino and being able to enter that vertical, that will incentivize them to pull back. And the thing is like, because it's a lot of the traditionally the well known brands globally that are kind of in or around that market, most of them have, you know, kind of like express their interest in entering a regulated market because of the product, the visibility, the marketing capabilities, they are going to be the best known brands.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: So would, okay, so you're a well known operator who is operating there because the legislation doesn't really say you can, can't explicitly get told. Now it's the case, okay, you pull out because you're going to have to relist a company or whatever. You know, there's, I think we're tracking about one and a half thousand brands targeting the New Zealand market and there's More than that, we then just assume a long tail. So how many of those are that going to apply to? Okay, 15 who decide they want to get an I casino license. And then maybe there's another 100, 200 who kind of see the letter and go, okay, won't bother. There's still well over a thousand. You can multiple thousand brands attacking it. Yeah. And this is one where, you know, it's only better. Some of these better known brands, let's say for sake of argument, a not so targeting it, but let's say a big name sportsbook who decides they're pulling out either because they're listed or for whatever social reasons or they want to get a casino license. It then makes it more attractive actually for you. Some of these larger, better brands are pulling out. It makes it more attractive than these other brands to start targeting it more. So when you say enforcement, asking someone to leave enforces it for a small part of the market, but not everyone. And yet I just don't see why people wouldn't view this as a market where we don't encourage gray market operators. But if you're looking at somebody as a gray market operator, I'd look at it and go, okay, cool. A lot of my well known competition is exiting the market either to go onshore or just to pull back from it. This becomes a much more attractive market for me to focus on.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: And mindful of the fact you have a call.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Well, one thing I wanted to do is I wanted to play a game, Robin.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: I kind of think that. Yeah, I've got one minute. I kind of think that when you listen to professional podcasts, they always have. I don't know if they call games like little bits in it where they do every. Every week or every day or whenever they do. Right, so I'm gonna click a random country and if we're very good. Well, we don't have time to talk about now. So I was going to say what do we know about that country in terms of gambling? Not generally, although probably both going to it or whether we have to do one the next random country or whether we have to prepare for something on it next week. There you go.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: What have we got? Peru.
That's an excellent one. So we're going to talk about Peru next week.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: We've actually got tax data now about it. So that's helped.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: Well, yeah, we've got tax data. We've obviously got connections in the market. Shout out Gonzalo Perez of Wapoested Hotel.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: And something a bit more random. Niger so there we go.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: Excellent. So we're talking about a Niger and Peru next week.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: Probably a lot more on Peru than Niger.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: I suspect so.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Okay, Right.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: So everyone, thank you very much for listening, as always. This has been episode 10. We're in double figures. Can you believe it?
[00:26:27] Speaker B: We actually have done 11 episodes. We just canceled one because it was so bad.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't our best, but we weren't going to tell people about that, about the Lost episode.
[00:26:37] Speaker B: They're thinking, God, if there's one that was so bad he didn't put up, it must have been terrible.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And to think about what we've been putting out. I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. The world was not ready for it.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: It could be archived for 100th anniversary.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Well, funnily enough, on our other far more successful podcast, we're about to record episode 50. It's a very special guest, so let's. Let's aim for that. Right. On that note, thank you very much for listening once again. And this has been another episode of Right to the Source with Robin Harrison and Ed Birkin. We will see you next time.